Wedding Rings

How to Travel (biased view)

Question:

> It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional > variation and people could simply be curious.  It is worth noting that > some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the > world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts.

You hit the nail right on the head, as far as I’m concerned. I love to travel, both domestic (USA) and in Europe.When I am in Europe, I eat at McDonalds once or twice for two reasons. First, I sometimes get a bit  homesick, and I am a McDonalds fan. Second, I like to see how European McDonalds differ from what I am used to at home in the Philadelphia area. One or two lunches at a McDonalds toward the end of a trip is plenty for me.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional > variation and people could simply be curious.  It is worth noting that > some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the > world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts. > You hit the nail right on the head, as far as I’m concerned. I love to > travel, > both domestic (USA) and in Europe.When I am in Europe, I eat at McDonalds > once or twice for two reasons. First, I sometimes get a bit  homesick, > and I > am a McDonalds fan. Second, I like to see how European McDonalds differ > from what I am used to at home in the Philadelphia area. One or two > lunches > at a McDonalds toward the end of a trip is plenty for me.

I was making fun of friends who mentioned eating at McDonalds.  They replied that one feature of eating at McDonalds is that you can find a restroom which is both clean and free. Dick

Response:

You are on Vacation!  Leave the job at home..no cell phone..maybe even no laptop. You can always go to the cybercafes.Get a drip-dry hair style. Guys,grow a beard. There,we’ve left the dryer and the shaver at home and no one will know how you are supposed to look and you can stand to look at a different you in the mirror for three weeks. Don’t try to drive..enjoy the leisure of train travel. Leave most of your things at home..enjoy shopping here and there. Don’t set a castiron schedule,loaf and schmooze. No jewelry..except your wedding rings..fewer things to lose. Take a tiny or disposable camera, unless you dream of being Ansel Adams. Learn some of the language..please and thank you, for starts. Enjoy the difference..don’t need Coke, try Orangina..don’t crave Macdooodooo, try a sandwich of the local cheese and sausage, ham, dried beef. Go in the off season,heavens, you might just get by with NO reservations anywhere! Try a room with a shared bath for a night or two..you might enjoy the economy.  Most of all, go with the determination to have a happy time. glen black — Glen’s Multifarious Page http://sites.netscape.net/willgeewillgee/homepage

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You are on Vacation!  Leave the job at home..no cell phone..maybe even > no laptop. You can always go to the cybercafes.Get a drip-dry hair > style. Guys,grow a beard. There,we’ve left the dryer and the shaver at > home and no one will know how you are supposed to look and you can stand > to look at a different you in the mirror for three weeks. Don’t try to > drive..enjoy the leisure of train travel. Leave most of your things at > home..enjoy shopping here and there. Don’t set a castiron schedule,loaf > and schmooze. No jewelry..except your wedding rings..fewer things to > lose. Take a tiny or disposable camera, unless you dream of being Ansel > Adams. Learn some of the language..please and thank you, for starts. > Enjoy the difference..don’t need Coke, try Orangina..don’t crave > Macdooodooo, try a sandwich of the local cheese and sausage, ham, dried > beef. Go in the off season,heavens, you might just get by with NO > reservations anywhere! Try a room with a shared bath for a night or > two..you might enjoy the economy.  Most of all, go with the > determination to have a happy time. glen black > — > Glen’s Multifarious Page > http://sites.netscape.net/willgeewillgee/homepage

Well said! which is to say, I share many of your biases.

Response:

>Try a room with a shared bath

It’s difficult to get more than one person into most baths. — Michael Forrest

Response:

In general, I agree with the philosophy. But after a couple of days of not shaving, I find my whiskers scratchy and uncomfortable. So I shave. But not everyday. At the risk of starting this thread up again, I cannot understand why anyone would eat at McDonalds while on vacation–even on vacation in the US. But then again, I don’t really like McDonalds and I don’t really drink soft drinks (unless iced tea counts). Evidently, plenty of other people do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You are on Vacation!  Leave the job at home..no cell phone..maybe even > no laptop. You can always go to the cybercafes.Get a drip-dry hair > style. Guys,grow a beard. There,we’ve left the dryer and the shaver at > home and no one will know how you are supposed to look and you can stand > to look at a different you in the mirror for three weeks. Don’t try to > drive..enjoy the leisure of train travel. Leave most of your things at > home..enjoy shopping here and there. Don’t set a castiron schedule,loaf > and schmooze. No jewelry..except your wedding rings..fewer things to > lose. Take a tiny or disposable camera, unless you dream of being Ansel > Adams. Learn some of the language..please and thank you, for starts. > Enjoy the difference..don’t need Coke, try Orangina..don’t crave > Macdooodooo, try a sandwich of the local cheese and sausage, ham, dried > beef. Go in the off season,heavens, you might just get by with NO > reservations anywhere! Try a room with a shared bath for a night or > two..you might enjoy the economy.  Most of all, go with the > determination to have a happy time. glen black > — > Glen’s Multifarious Page > http://sites.netscape.net/willgeewillgee/homepage

Response:

> At the risk of starting this thread up again, I cannot understand why > anyone would eat at McDonalds while on vacation–even on vacation in > the US. But then again, I don’t really like McDonalds and I don’t > really drink soft drinks (unless iced tea counts). Evidently, plenty > of other people do.

It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional variation and people could simply be curious.  It is worth noting that some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts. — Guy Robinson www.legendary.freeserve.co.uk [all standard disclaimers apply] Before you buy.

Response:

> It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional > variation and people could simply be curious.  It is worth noting that > some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the > world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts.

I do have a hard time justifying McDOnald’s, but some reasons that epople  might eat (upon occasion) at ubiquitous American-style chain restaurants include: 1.  I ate at a Hard Rock Cafe in Cozumel one year in Mexico, because I desperately wanted fresh salad, or any raw vegetable.    I;d been very good aobut not e eating them to avoid montezuma’s revenge. 2.  Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, generally not being open to trying new foods.  This does NOT mean that won’t when they are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. 3.  The t-shirts.  If you travelk with teens,t hose shirts are the coolest 4.  Time.  I ate at a Burger King in Amsterdam bone time becaused tickets for a wine and cheese tour of the canals in 40 minutes.  My experience of Amsterdam, and all of Europe, is that they are gearted to more leisurely dining; which I generally prefer.    But sometimes things just do not turn out right! Julie

Response:

>2.  Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >generally not being open to trying new foods.  This does NOT mean that won’t >when they >are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of >good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar.

I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe.  It’s tooa great extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is handled.  Of course that’s IMHO. —     <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel                      - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe              posted 21 June 2000

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> At the risk of starting this thread up again, I cannot understand why > anyone would eat at McDonalds while on vacation–even on vacation in > the US. But then again, I don’t really like McDonalds and I don’t > really drink soft drinks (unless iced tea counts). Evidently, plenty > of other people do. > It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional > variation and people could simply be curious.  It is worth noting that > some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the > world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts.

Unless you’re a unix sysadmin then a hardrock cafe is a good chance to obtain a much needed addition to your wardrobe. — Jeroen Wijnands http://www.xs4all.nl/~wijnands "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit" Before you buy.

Response:

[ Robert Buxbaum didn't say this, but I don't know who did:] >>2.  Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >>generally not being open to trying new foods.  This does NOT mean that won’t >>when they >>are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe.  It’s tooa great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled.  Of course that’s IMHO.

[ I trimmed a lot of this ] > I beg to differ.  I have children who grew up to be extrordinarily wide raging > in their tastes ….  Still at 4 and 7, and other > times in his development, h had a very limited list of what he would eat.

…  Now that my kids are mostly adults, > … they will try most anything… but whent hey were small children, they had their times > when they were picky.  When I travelled with them at those ages, we did > occasionally stop at Burger Doodle or whatever, just to get a meal into > them (and often got cereal for breakfst to help them start theday with > soemthing familiar) > Do you have children?  Did  then NEVER go through this kind of thing?

I have two children, now adults, and I had great success by not getting involved in any way with their food likes and dislikes. I prepared meals, set them in front of them and neither encouraged them to try anything nor insisted that they eat at all. From the time they could pick up a piece of food and stuff it in their mouths, I allowed them to feed themselves and cleaned up the mess afterwards. I never bought "baby food", only made sure that the food I placed in front of them was mashed or otherwise safe for toothless babies. I didn’t buy cookies or any other processed foods, however. I had very little money when my children were small and I saved on the grocery bill by making everything, from cereal to bread, from scratch. (For example, I learned that I could grind ordinary rice in my coffee grinder to make a very inexpensive hot cereal for our breakfasts, instead of buying "Cream of Rice".) My children never went through any fussy stages; or if they did, I didn’t notice. I think such stages are attempts to exercise a little parental control and if they think Mom doesn’t really care what they eat or don’t eat, it doesn’t occur to them that this will work. As adults, my children enjoy a wide range of foods. There was a long period when one of them disliked tomatoes, but this is just a matter of taste, not fussiness. I notice that she now eats them. Barbara

Response:

Never having raised a child, of course I have very definite ideas on the subject (;->).  However, I think parents worry too much about "dealing with a hungry kid" – if they’re REALLY hungry, they’ll eat whatever they’re given – or make do with bread or something equally familiar – all but the most exotic meals include something of that nature.  And if they are normally well fed, missing a meal or two will do them no lasting harm, just make them appreciate the next one more!  (It works with cats, too, and there ain’t NOTHING as fussy as a well fed cat – even when they started life as strays, it’s suprising how quickly they become "finicky" when they learn there’s always food available!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My granddaughter (age 4) will TRY anything, as long as she’s assured it’s "not > too spicy", but won’t always plow ahead & make a meal of it; if we don’t want to > have a hungry kid to deal with, it’s good to have something relatively familiar > in reserve.

Response:

> It may work for you and for lot’s of us, but some people want to look their > best and travel to dine at the best restaurants, go to the opera, etc.  They > may be more comfortable wearing their best clothes and spending time > grooming during the trip.

Yeah, you got it!  (I AM taking all the advice to "pack light" – but it’s the "sporty" wardrobe, rather than the dressy one, that’s going to stay home!)

Response:

Well, being a product of the Great Depression" and a home where you ate what was served, or you didn’t eat until the next meal, I learned early not to be "picky" about my food.  (That doesn’t mean I’m not particular about what I prepare for myself or order in a restaurant, but if it’s fit to eat, I CAN eat it – whether or not I happen to like it.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->2.  Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >generally not being open to trying new foods.  This does NOT mean that won’t >when they >are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of >good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe.  It’s tooa great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled.  Of course that’s IMHO. > — >     <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel >                      - > new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe >              posted 21 June 2000

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>To be sure one child is far less than half as hard to raise than two and you >may have more.  It’s a lot easier to focus on one stage at a time.

I have heard the opposite said, that with several they largely raise each other. We only had two and no control to compare with – so very unscientific. My wife was one of three, the eldest of them, covering quite an age range. There are certainly photos of her doing some of the raising of younger brother. He turned out very useful later by becoming a doctor. — Michael Forrest

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>>To be sure one child is far less than half as hard to raise than two and >you >may have more.  It’s a lot easier to focus on one stage at a time. >I have heard the opposite said, that with several they largely raise >each other.

You probably have a good point, but only after a certain number.  Like other things in life, it’s the getting there that will kill you. —     <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel                      - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe              posted 21 June 2000

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but as he said  you might really like it  :)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Try a room with a shared bath > It’s difficult to get more than one person into most baths. > — > Michael Forrest

Response:

I haven’t eaten at McD’s while in Europe (need to save room for the gelato and wine), but let’s not forget they have GREAT public bathrooms! Iced tea?  I live on the stuff, unsweetened, and have withdrawal in Europe- no ice – only that canned sweetened stuff.   I end up substituting water and wine.  In London, after 4 weeks in Europe,  I resorted to ordering (in a Burger King) a hot tea, and 2 cups of ice. Wonderful……. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >At the risk of starting this thread up again, I cannot understand why >anyone would eat at McDonalds while on vacation–even on vacation in the >US. But then again, I don’t really like McDonalds and I don’t really >drink soft drinks (unless iced tea counts). Evidently, plenty of other >people do.

Response:

>My granddaughter (age 4) will TRY anything, as long as she’s assured it’s >"not >too spicy", but won’t always plow ahead & make a meal of it; if we don’t >want to >have a hungry kid to deal with, it’s good to have something relatively >familiar >in reserve.

I’ll bet that if you provide enough choices she’ll find something she’ll eat.  The mere fact that there are lots of choices will also enable her to convince herself she’s made the choice and not you.  But yes, there are usually foods that are safer than others and parents are generally aware of the parameters within which they can work.  I also recall my daughter could say "no" at four for reasons of her own.  Had she managed to get us to feed her a diet of only one thing, she’d find the day to say no to that if only for sport.  It’s a four year old thing, a stage if you will and a difficult one for me if only because our daughter sensed how much I was amazed by her determination.  ;-) —     <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel                      - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe              posted 21 June 2000

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>2.  Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >>generally not being open to trying new foods.  This does NOT mean that >>won’t >>when they >>are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >>Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot >>of >>good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe.  It’s tooa > great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at > home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled.  Of course that’s IMHO. >I beg to differ.  I have children who grew up to be extrordinarily wide >raging >in their tastes, including a son who, at 10, woudl eat sushi (yes, the kind >with raw fish, not just california rolls), almost any ethnic food you  could >introduce him to, and loved trying new things.  Still at 4 and 7, and other >times in his development, h had a very limited list of what he would eat.   >Indeed there are times in development when a child needs the security of the >familiar, and when much of the familiar is gone, i.e. when he or she is tra- >velling, they will often refuse new foods.  Now that my kids are mostly >adults, >(the youngest is 16_) they will try most anything, and they get the chance >to >eat a vgreat variety of food at home (as I enjoy ethnic and international >cooking and dining) but whent hey were small children, they had their times >when they were picky.  When I travelled with them at those ages, we did >occasionally stop at Burger Doodle or whatever, just to get a meal into >them (and often got cereal for breakfst to help them start theday with >soemthing familiar) >Note that I am talking about small children, but I believe that this is a >phenomen recognized by most child rearing books and guides, and by most >pediatricians. >Do you have children?  Did  then NEVER go through this kind of thing?

Last first.  Yes, yes, but not to an extent that it modified our lives in any significant way.  We never traveled abroad until she was about eleven, unless you count the Caribbean, but that was to see grandma, where she ate whatever grandma cooked or whatever we picked up at the beach stands. She’s in her late twenties and married to a French chef for whatever that’s worth.  ;-)  Although she referred to me as the food snob while she was in high school, her palate is far more discriminating than mine now.   We may disagree, but note that I merely said this is less universal than some people believe and, IMHO, to a great extent encouraged by parental reaction.  We generally followed our pediatrician’s advice that it’s unlkely for a child to starve if there’s food around.  She ate what we ate at home or waited until we served something she liked.  We never insisted she eat anything, although we may have insisted she try some things.  To be fair, as soon as she could speak she was allowed a say in what was served and we’d prepare her favorite things several times a week.   Yes, it helps to occasionally give in and all children have their picky periods, but I’m not at all convinced that parental reaction doesn’t lengthen those periods far more often than not.   I took my daughter to a Burger King once. (kids get all sort of experiences from other kids and their families – I think that’s healthy)   Too many American’s, and this is not in anyway directed at you, don’t sit down together at dinner as a family and too many Americans don’t treat dinner as an exciting event in the day.  It’s a chore to shop, it’s a chore to cook and soon enough it’s a chore to eat.  Put that on top of a historical puritanism that discourged enjoyment of temporal life anyway and lots of people still don’t really enjoy meals the way they do, or did, in France, Italy or Spain.   It’s easier to use food as a tool in asserting yourself when it’s not an important joy in your life.  It’s far easier to see it as a comfort when you can associate with one kind of food more than another.  For me it was easier tollow my daughter to go to a fancy restaurant in jeans that to be unable to go to the restaurant.  I’m perfectly aware that most people would give up on the food if their child would dress properly.  Once again it’s not so much a value judgement than it is a recognition that we make our own problems all too often. To be sure one child is far less than half as hard to raise than two and you may have more.  It’s a lot easier to focus on one stage at a time. Yes, kids go through stages, but no it shouldn’t disrupt your life, and I don’t think an occasionally stop at Burger Doodle, here or abroad, is necessarily a major disruption either.  I’m so far off topic and irrelevant to the group, so I’ll stop. —     <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel                      - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe              posted 21 June 2000

Response:

> (snip) > 4.  Time.  I ate at a Burger King in Amsterdam bone time becaused tickets > for a wine and cheese tour of the canals in 40 minutes.  My experience of > Amsterdam, and all of Europe, is that they are gearted to more leisurely > dining; which I generally prefer.    But sometimes things just do not > turn out right! > Julie > In Amsterdam you could try a Febo – both faster (pop in the coins, open the > little glass door, & there’s your kroket) & IMO tastier than Burger King.

Yes, but at the time I didn’t know that.  It was our second night in Amsterdam and we’d gotten the tour tickets at the last minute, and BK was nearby. Julie

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(snip) > 4.  Time.  I ate at a Burger King in Amsterdam bone time becaused tickets > for a wine and cheese tour of the canals in 40 minutes.  My experience of > Amsterdam, and all of Europe, is that they are gearted to more leisurely > dining; which I generally prefer.    But sometimes things just do not > turn out right! > Julie

In Amsterdam you could try a Febo – both faster (pop in the coins, open the little glass door, & there’s your kroket) & IMO tastier than Burger King.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->2.  Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >generally not being open to trying new foods.  This does NOT mean that won’t >when they >are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of >good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe.  It’s tooa great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled.  Of course that’s IMHO.

My granddaughter (age 4) will TRY anything, as long as she’s assured it’s "not too spicy", but won’t always plow ahead & make a meal of it; if we don’t want to have a hungry kid to deal with, it’s good to have something relatively familiar in reserve.

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>>2.  Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >generally not being open to trying new foods.  This does NOT mean that won’t >when they >are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of >good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe.  It’s tooa great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled.  Of course that’s IMHO.

I beg to differ.  I have children who grew up to be extrordinarily wide raging in their tastes, including a son who, at 10, woudl eat sushi (yes, the kind with raw fish, not just california rolls), almost any ethnic food you  could introduce him to, and loved trying new things.  Still at 4 and 7, and other times in his development, h had a very limited list of what he would eat.   Indeed there are times in development when a child needs the security of the familiar, and when much of the familiar is gone, i.e. when he or she is tra- velling, they will often refuse new foods.  Now that my kids are mostly adults, (the youngest is 16_) they will try most anything, and they get the chance to eat a vgreat variety of food at home (as I enjoy ethnic and international cooking and dining) but whent hey were small children, they had their times when they were picky.  When I travelled with them at those ages, we did occasionally stop at Burger Doodle or whatever, just to get a meal into them (and often got cereal for breakfst to help them start theday with soemthing familiar) Note that I am talking about small children, but I believe that this is a phenomen recognized by most child rearing books and guides, and by most pediatricians. Do you have children?  Did  then NEVER go through this kind of thing? Julie

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>You are on Vacation!  Leave the job at home..no cell phone..maybe even >no laptop. You can always go to the cybercafes.

Some people travel for business and some manage to combine both.  The most obvious couple I know who can manage almost every moment to be enjoyable are a chef and professional food writer.  The both might want to take notes along the way.  Lots of prople, surely a minority but still lots, do not copartmentalize their lives into work and play, but actually enjoy their vocations without need to get away.  Anyway, travel and vacation are not synonymous.   >Get a drip-dry hair >style. Guys,grow a beard. There,we’ve left the dryer and the shaver at >home and no one will know how you are supposed to look and you can stand >to look at a different you in the mirror for three weeks.

It may work for you and for lot’s of us, but some people want to look their best and travel to dine at the best restaurants, go to the opera, etc.  They may be more comfortable wearing their best clothes and spending time grooming during the trip.   >Don’t try to drive..enjoy the leisure of train travel.

This is an interesting suggestion and one I have the most trouble with.  I have begun to detest driving.  In my college days, I would take a 50 -100 mile drive to relax.  Now I dislike getting into a car.  Nevertheless, unless our trip is restricted to cities, a car is a major requisite on any trip.  We have rented cars in Japan, which is something I wouldn’t recommend to most travelers.  We’ve found that once out of the city, there’s no way we could see many of the things we want to see, nor do we have the patience to depend on matching our itinerary to the schedules of public transportation on the entire trip.  Whenever I’ve trying to cover ground, I’ll attempt to   fly or take the train, but many of our most memorable evenings have been spent in country inns rather inaccessible by public transportation.   >Leave most of your things at >home..enjoy shopping here and there. Don’t set a castiron schedule,loaf >and schmooze. No jewelry..except your wedding rings..fewer things to >lose. Take a tiny or disposable camera, unless you dream of being Ansel >Adams. Learn some of the language..please and thank you, for starts.

I agree with the drift, but note my comments above.  I do take a good 35 mm camera.  At one point we began to rely on a small point and shoot camera, but were disappointed at the results. >Enjoy the difference..don’t need Coke, try Orangina..don’t crave >Macdooodooo, try a sandwich of the local cheese and sausage, ham, dried >beef.

In some ways this is almost contradictory to the suggestions first made.   It’s often easier and more relaxing to get a Coke or eat at a McDo, they’re ubiquitous in many places and easier to find as well as easier to deal with for most travelers who just want to relax and enjoy the leisure of a vacation.  However, I find the chance to enjoy local foods, one of the reasons to travel, so I agree with you, but possibly for other reasons. >Go in the off season,heavens, you might just get by with NO >reservations anywhere! Try a room with a shared bath for a night or >two..you might enjoy the economy.  

While I agree about the joys of traveling in the off season, one should be aware that the season is the season both because that’s when most people are free to travel and often because that’s when a particular  location has the most to offer.  As for enjoying the economy, I might, but my wife might prefer the luxury.  Life is a compromise at times.   >Most of all, go with the >determination to have a happy time.

Absolutely no argument here.  And if I sound argumentative or contentious in the rest of my reply, I don’t mean to. None of this is meant as a put down.   I am sure your advice works for you and that other seasoned travelers know what works for them.  I just want to present a balance and note that novice travelers have a choice and should learn their needs.  A lot may depend on how much a trip is intended as a vacation and how much it’s intended as an adventure.  From your message, I can see that for both of us, it’s really a combination, even if the emphasis is different. —     <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel                      - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe              posted 21 June 2000

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You are on Vacation!  Leave the job at home..no cell phone..maybe even no laptop. You can always go to the cybercafes.Get a drip-dry hair style. Guys,grow a beard. There,we’ve left the dryer and the shaver at home and no one will know how you are supposed to look and you can stand to look at a different you in the mirror for three weeks. Don’t try to drive..enjoy the leisure of train travel. Leave most of your things at home..enjoy shopping here and there. Don’t set a castiron schedule,loaf and schmooze. No jewelry..except your wedding rings..fewer things to lose. Take a tiny or disposable camera, unless you dream of being Ansel Adams. Learn some of the language..please and thank you, for starts. Enjoy the difference..don’t need Coke, try Orangina..don’t crave Macdooodooo, try a sandwich of the local cheese and sausage, ham, dried beef. Go in the off season,heavens, you might just get by with NO reservations anywhere! Try a room with a shared bath for a night or two..you might enjoy the economy.  Most of all, go with the determination to have a happy time. glen black — Glen’s Multifarious Page http://sites.netscape.net/willgeewillgee/homepage

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You are on Vacation!  Leave the job at home..no cell phone..maybe even > no laptop. You can always go to the cybercafes.Get a drip-dry hair > style. Guys,grow a beard. There,we’ve left the dryer and the shaver at > home and no one will know how you are supposed to look and you can stand > to look at a different you in the mirror for three weeks. Don’t try to > drive..enjoy the leisure of train travel. Leave most of your things at > home..enjoy shopping here and there. Don’t set a castiron schedule,loaf > and schmooze. No jewelry..except your wedding rings..fewer things to > lose. Take a tiny or disposable camera, unless you dream of being Ansel > Adams. Learn some of the language..please and thank you, for starts. > Enjoy the difference..don’t need Coke, try Orangina..don’t crave > Macdooodooo, try a sandwich of the local cheese and sausage, ham, dried > beef. Go in the off season,heavens, you might just get by with NO > reservations anywhere! Try a room with a shared bath for a night or > two..you might enjoy the economy.  Most of all, go with the > determination to have a happy time. glen black > — > Glen’s Multifarious Page > http://sites.netscape.net/willgeewillgee/homepage

Well said! which is to say, I share many of your biases.

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>Try a room with a shared bath

It’s difficult to get more than one person into most baths. — Michael Forrest

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In general, I agree with the philosophy. But after a couple of days of not shaving, I find my whiskers scratchy and uncomfortable. So I shave. But not everyday. At the risk of starting this thread up again, I cannot understand why anyone would eat at McDonalds while on vacation–even on vacation in the US. But then again, I don’t really like McDonalds and I don’t really drink soft drinks (unless iced tea counts). Evidently, plenty of other people do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You are on Vacation!  Leave the job at home..no cell phone..maybe even > no laptop. You can always go to the cybercafes.Get a drip-dry hair > style. Guys,grow a beard. There,we’ve left the dryer and the shaver at > home and no one will know how you are supposed to look and you can stand > to look at a different you in the mirror for three weeks. Don’t try to > drive..enjoy the leisure of train travel. Leave most of your things at > home..enjoy shopping here and there. Don’t set a castiron schedule,loaf > and schmooze. No jewelry..except your wedding rings..fewer things to > lose. Take a tiny or disposable camera, unless you dream of being Ansel > Adams. Learn some of the language..please and thank you, for starts. > Enjoy the difference..don’t need Coke, try Orangina..don’t crave > Macdooodooo, try a sandwich of the local cheese and sausage, ham, dried > beef. Go in the off season,heavens, you might just get by with NO > reservations anywhere! Try a room with a shared bath for a night or > two..you might enjoy the economy.  Most of all, go with the > determination to have a happy time. glen black > — > Glen’s Multifarious Page > http://sites.netscape.net/willgeewillgee/homepage

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> At the risk of starting this thread up again, I cannot understand why > anyone would eat at McDonalds while on vacation–even on vacation in > the US. But then again, I don’t really like McDonalds and I don’t > really drink soft drinks (unless iced tea counts). Evidently, plenty > of other people do.

It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional variation and people could simply be curious.  It is worth noting that some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts. — Guy Robinson www.legendary.freeserve.co.uk [all standard disclaimers apply] Before you buy.

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> It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional > variation and people could simply be curious.  It is worth noting that > some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the > world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts.

I do have a hard time justifying McDOnald’s, but some reasons that epople  might eat (upon occasion) at ubiquitous American-style chain restaurants include: 1.  I ate at a Hard Rock Cafe in Cozumel one year in Mexico, because I desperately wanted fresh salad, or any raw vegetable.    I;d been very good aobut not e eating them to avoid montezuma’s revenge. 2.  Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, generally not being open to trying new foods.  This does NOT mean that won’t when they are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. 3.  The t-shirts.  If you travelk with teens,t hose shirts are the coolest 4.  Time.  I ate at a Burger King in Amsterdam bone time becaused tickets for a wine and cheese tour of the canals in 40 minutes.  My experience of Amsterdam, and all of Europe, is that they are gearted to more leisurely dining; which I generally prefer.    But sometimes things just do not turn out right! Julie

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>2.  Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >generally not being open to trying new foods.  This does NOT mean that won’t >when they >are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of >good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar.

I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe.  It’s tooa great extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is handled.  Of course that’s IMHO. —     <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel                      - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe              posted 21 June 2000

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>You are on Vacation!  Leave the job at home..no cell phone..maybe even >no laptop. You can always go to the cybercafes.

Some people travel for business and some manage to combine both.  The most obvious couple I know who can manage almost every moment to be enjoyable are a chef and professional food writer.  The both might want to take notes along the way.  Lots of prople, surely a minority but still lots, do not copartmentalize their lives into work and play, but actually enjoy their vocations without need to get away.  Anyway, travel and vacation are not synonymous.   >Get a drip-dry hair >style. Guys,grow a beard. There,we’ve left the dryer and the shaver at >home and no one will know how you are supposed to look and you can stand >to look at a different you in the mirror for three weeks.

It may work for you and for lot’s of us, but some people want to look their best and travel to dine at the best restaurants, go to the opera, etc.  They may be more comfortable wearing their best clothes and spending time grooming during the trip.   >Don’t try to drive..enjoy the leisure of train travel.

This is an interesting suggestion and one I have the most trouble with.  I have begun to detest driving.  In my college days, I would take a 50 -100 mile drive to relax.  Now I dislike getting into a car.  Nevertheless, unless our trip is restricted to cities, a car is a major requisite on any trip.  We have rented cars in Japan, which is something I wouldn’t recommend to most travelers.  We’ve found that once out of the city, there’s no way we could see many of the things we want to see, nor do we have the patience to depend on matching our itinerary to the schedules of public transportation on the entire trip.  Whenever I’ve trying to cover ground, I’ll attempt to   fly or take the train, but many of our most memorable evenings have been spent in country inns rather inaccessible by public transportation.   >Leave most of your things at >home..enjoy shopping here and there. Don’t set a castiron schedule,loaf >and schmooze. No jewelry..except your wedding rings..fewer things to >lose. Take a tiny or disposable camera, unless you dream of being Ansel >Adams. Learn some of the language..please and thank you, for starts.

I agree with the drift, but note my comments above.  I do take a good 35 mm camera.  At one point we began to rely on a small point and shoot camera, but were disappointed at the results. >Enjoy the difference..don’t need Coke, try Orangina..don’t crave >Macdooodooo, try a sandwich of the local cheese and sausage, ham, dried >beef.

In some ways this is almost contradictory to the suggestions first made.   It’s often easier and more relaxing to get a Coke or eat at a McDo, they’re ubiquitous in many places and easier to find as well as easier to deal with for most travelers who just want to relax and enjoy the leisure of a vacation.  However, I find the chance to enjoy local foods, one of the reasons to travel, so I agree with you, but possibly for other reasons. >Go in the off season,heavens, you might just get by with NO >reservations anywhere! Try a room with a shared bath for a night or >two..you might enjoy the economy.  

While I agree about the joys of traveling in the off season, one should be aware that the season is the season both because that’s when most people are free to travel and often because that’s when a particular  location has the most to offer.  As for enjoying the economy, I might, but my wife might prefer the luxury.  Life is a compromise at times.   >Most of all, go with the >determination to have a happy time.

Absolutely no argument here.  And if I sound argumentative or contentious in the rest of my reply, I don’t mean to. None of this is meant as a put down.   I am sure your advice works for you and that other seasoned travelers know what works for them.  I just want to present a balance and note that novice travelers have a choice and should learn their needs.  A lot may depend on how much a trip is intended as a vacation and how much it’s intended as an adventure.  From your message, I can see that for both of us, it’s really a combination, even if the emphasis is different. —     <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel                      - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe              posted 21 June 2000

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(snip) > 4.  Time.  I ate at a Burger King in Amsterdam bone time becaused tickets > for a wine and cheese tour of the canals in 40 minutes.  My experience of > Amsterdam, and all of Europe, is that they are gearted to more leisurely > dining; which I generally prefer.    But sometimes things just do not > turn out right! > Julie

In Amsterdam you could try a Febo – both faster (pop in the coins, open the little glass door, & there’s your kroket) & IMO tastier than Burger King.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->2.  Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >generally not being open to trying new foods.  This does NOT mean that won’t >when they >are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of >good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe.  It’s tooa great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled.  Of course that’s IMHO.

My granddaughter (age 4) will TRY anything, as long as she’s assured it’s "not too spicy", but won’t always plow ahead & make a meal of it; if we don’t want to have a hungry kid to deal with, it’s good to have something relatively familiar in reserve.

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>>2.  Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >generally not being open to trying new foods.  This does NOT mean that won’t >when they >are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of >good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe.  It’s tooa great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled.  Of course that’s IMHO.

I beg to differ.  I have children who grew up to be extrordinarily wide raging in their tastes, including a son who, at 10, woudl eat sushi (yes, the kind with raw fish, not just california rolls), almost any ethnic food you  could introduce him to, and loved trying new things.  Still at 4 and 7, and other times in his development, h had a very limited list of what he would eat.   Indeed there are times in development when a child needs the security of the familiar, and when much of the familiar is gone, i.e. when he or she is tra- velling, they will often refuse new foods.  Now that my kids are mostly adults, (the youngest is 16_) they will try most anything, and they get the chance to eat a vgreat variety of food at home (as I enjoy ethnic and international cooking and dining) but whent hey were small children, they had their times when they were picky.  When I travelled with them at those ages, we did occasionally stop at Burger Doodle or whatever, just to get a meal into them (and often got cereal for breakfst to help them start theday with soemthing familiar) Note that I am talking about small children, but I believe that this is a phenomen recognized by most child rearing books and guides, and by most pediatricians. Do you have children?  Did  then NEVER go through this kind of thing? Julie

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> (snip) > 4.  Time.  I ate at a Burger King in Amsterdam bone time becaused tickets > for a wine and cheese tour of the canals in 40 minutes.  My experience of > Amsterdam, and all of Europe, is that they are gearted to more leisurely > dining; which I generally prefer.    But sometimes things just do not > turn out right! > Julie > In Amsterdam you could try a Febo – both faster (pop in the coins, open the > little glass door, & there’s your kroket) & IMO tastier than Burger King.

Yes, but at the time I didn’t know that.  It was our second night in Amsterdam and we’d gotten the tour tickets at the last minute, and BK was nearby. Julie

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>2.  Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >>generally not being open to trying new foods.  This does NOT mean that >>won’t >>when they >>are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >>Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot >>of >>good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe.  It’s tooa > great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at > home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled.  Of course that’s IMHO. >I beg to differ.  I have children who grew up to be extrordinarily wide >raging >in their tastes, including a son who, at 10, woudl eat sushi (yes, the kind >with raw fish, not just california rolls), almost any ethnic food you  could >introduce him to, and loved trying new things.  Still at 4 and 7, and other >times in his development, h had a very limited list of what he would eat.   >Indeed there are times in development when a child needs the security of the >familiar, and when much of the familiar is gone, i.e. when he or she is tra- >velling, they will often refuse new foods.  Now that my kids are mostly >adults, >(the youngest is 16_) they will try most anything, and they get the chance >to >eat a vgreat variety of food at home (as I enjoy ethnic and international >cooking and dining) but whent hey were small children, they had their times >when they were picky.  When I travelled with them at those ages, we did >occasionally stop at Burger Doodle or whatever, just to get a meal into >them (and often got cereal for breakfst to help them start theday with >soemthing familiar) >Note that I am talking about small children, but I believe that this is a >phenomen recognized by most child rearing books and guides, and by most >pediatricians. >Do you have children?  Did  then NEVER go through this kind of thing?

Last first.  Yes, yes, but not to an extent that it modified our lives in any significant way.  We never traveled abroad until she was about eleven, unless you count the Caribbean, but that was to see grandma, where she ate whatever grandma cooked or whatever we picked up at the beach stands. She’s in her late twenties and married to a French chef for whatever that’s worth.  ;-)  Although she referred to me as the food snob while she was in high school, her palate is far more discriminating than mine now.   We may disagree, but note that I merely said this is less universal than some people believe and, IMHO, to a great extent encouraged by parental reaction.  We generally followed our pediatrician’s advice that it’s unlkely for a child to starve if there’s food around.  She ate what we ate at home or waited until we served something she liked.  We never insisted she eat anything, although we may have insisted she try some things.  To be fair, as soon as she could speak she was allowed a say in what was served and we’d prepare her favorite things several times a week.   Yes, it helps to occasionally give in and all children have their picky periods, but I’m not at all convinced that parental reaction doesn’t lengthen those periods far more often than not.   I took my daughter to a Burger King once. (kids get all sort of experiences from other kids and their families – I think that’s healthy)   Too many American’s, and this is not in anyway directed at you, don’t sit down together at dinner as a family and too many Americans don’t treat dinner as an exciting event in the day.  It’s a chore to shop, it’s a chore to cook and soon enough it’s a chore to eat.  Put that on top of a historical puritanism that discourged enjoyment of temporal life anyway and lots of people still don’t really enjoy meals the way they do, or did, in France, Italy or Spain.   It’s easier to use food as a tool in asserting yourself when it’s not an important joy in your life.  It’s far easier to see it as a comfort when you can associate with one kind of food more than another.  For me it was easier tollow my daughter to go to a fancy restaurant in jeans that to be unable to go to the restaurant.  I’m perfectly aware that most people would give up on the food if their child would dress properly.  Once again it’s not so much a value judgement than it is a recognition that we make our own problems all too often. To be sure one child is far less than half as hard to raise than two and you may have more.  It’s a lot easier to focus on one stage at a time. Yes, kids go through stages, but no it shouldn’t disrupt your life, and I don’t think an occasionally stop at Burger Doodle, here or abroad, is necessarily a major disruption either.  I’m so far off topic and irrelevant to the group, so I’ll stop. —     <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel                      - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe              posted 21 June 2000

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>My granddaughter (age 4) will TRY anything, as long as she’s assured it’s >"not >too spicy", but won’t always plow ahead & make a meal of it; if we don’t >want to >have a hungry kid to deal with, it’s good to have something relatively >familiar >in reserve.

I’ll bet that if you provide enough choices she’ll find something she’ll eat.  The mere fact that there are lots of choices will also enable her to convince herself she’s made the choice and not you.  But yes, there are usually foods that are safer than others and parents are generally aware of the parameters within which they can work.  I also recall my daughter could say "no" at four for reasons of her own.  Had she managed to get us to feed her a diet of only one thing, she’d find the day to say no to that if only for sport.  It’s a four year old thing, a stage if you will and a difficult one for me if only because our daughter sensed how much I was amazed by her determination.  ;-) —     <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel                      - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe              posted 21 June 2000

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>To be sure one child is far less than half as hard to raise than two and you >may have more.  It’s a lot easier to focus on one stage at a time.

I have heard the opposite said, that with several they largely raise each other. We only had two and no control to compare with – so very unscientific. My wife was one of three, the eldest of them, covering quite an age range. There are certainly photos of her doing some of the raising of younger brother. He turned out very useful later by becoming a doctor. — Michael Forrest

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>>To be sure one child is far less than half as hard to raise than two and >you >may have more.  It’s a lot easier to focus on one stage at a time. >I have heard the opposite said, that with several they largely raise >each other.

You probably have a good point, but only after a certain number.  Like other things in life, it’s the getting there that will kill you. —     <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel                      - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe              posted 21 June 2000

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but as he said  you might really like it  :)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Try a room with a shared bath > It’s difficult to get more than one person into most baths. > — > Michael Forrest

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I haven’t eaten at McD’s while in Europe (need to save room for the gelato and wine), but let’s not forget they have GREAT public bathrooms! Iced tea?  I live on the stuff, unsweetened, and have withdrawal in Europe- no ice – only that canned sweetened stuff.   I end up substituting water and wine.  In London, after 4 weeks in Europe,  I resorted to ordering (in a Burger King) a hot tea, and 2 cups of ice. Wonderful……. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >At the risk of starting this thread up again, I cannot understand why >anyone would eat at McDonalds while on vacation–even on vacation in the >US. But then again, I don’t really like McDonalds and I don’t really >drink soft drinks (unless iced tea counts). Evidently, plenty of other >people do.

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Well, being a product of the Great Depression" and a home where you ate what was served, or you didn’t eat until the next meal, I learned early not to be "picky" about my food.  (That doesn’t mean I’m not particular about what I prepare for myself or order in a restaurant, but if it’s fit to eat, I CAN eat it – whether or not I happen to like it.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->2.  Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >generally not being open to trying new foods.  This does NOT mean that won’t >when they >are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of >good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe.  It’s tooa great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled.  Of course that’s IMHO. > — >     <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel >                      - > new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe >              posted 21 June 2000

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> It may work for you and for lot’s of us, but some people want to look their > best and travel to dine at the best restaurants, go to the opera, etc.  They > may be more comfortable wearing their best clothes and spending time > grooming during the trip.

Yeah, you got it!  (I AM taking all the advice to "pack light" – but it’s the "sporty" wardrobe, rather than the dressy one, that’s going to stay home!)

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Never having raised a child, of course I have very definite ideas on the subject (;->).  However, I think parents worry too much about "dealing with a hungry kid" – if they’re REALLY hungry, they’ll eat whatever they’re given – or make do with bread or something equally familiar – all but the most exotic meals include something of that nature.  And if they are normally well fed, missing a meal or two will do them no lasting harm, just make them appreciate the next one more!  (It works with cats, too, and there ain’t NOTHING as fussy as a well fed cat – even when they started life as strays, it’s suprising how quickly they become "finicky" when they learn there’s always food available!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My granddaughter (age 4) will TRY anything, as long as she’s assured it’s "not > too spicy", but won’t always plow ahead & make a meal of it; if we don’t want to > have a hungry kid to deal with, it’s good to have something relatively familiar > in reserve.

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[ Robert Buxbaum didn't say this, but I don't know who did:] >>2.  Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >>generally not being open to trying new foods.  This does NOT mean that won’t >>when they >>are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe.  It’s tooa great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled.  Of course that’s IMHO.

[ I trimmed a lot of this ] > I beg to differ.  I have children who grew up to be extrordinarily wide raging > in their tastes ….  Still at 4 and 7, and other > times in his development, h had a very limited list of what he would eat.

…  Now that my kids are mostly adults, > … they will try most anything… but whent hey were small children, they had their times > when they were picky.  When I travelled with them at those ages, we did > occasionally stop at Burger Doodle or whatever, just to get a meal into > them (and often got cereal for breakfst to help them start theday with > soemthing familiar) > Do you have children?  Did  then NEVER go through this kind of thing?

I have two children, now adults, and I had great success by not getting involved in any way with their food likes and dislikes. I prepared meals, set them in front of them and neither encouraged them to try anything nor insisted that they eat at all. From the time they could pick up a piece of food and stuff it in their mouths, I allowed them to feed themselves and cleaned up the mess afterwards. I never bought "baby food", only made sure that the food I placed in front of them was mashed or otherwise safe for toothless babies. I didn’t buy cookies or any other processed foods, however. I had very little money when my children were small and I saved on the grocery bill by making everything, from cereal to bread, from scratch. (For example, I learned that I could grind ordinary rice in my coffee grinder to make a very inexpensive hot cereal for our breakfasts, instead of buying "Cream of Rice".) My children never went through any fussy stages; or if they did, I didn’t notice. I think such stages are attempts to exercise a little parental control and if they think Mom doesn’t really care what they eat or don’t eat, it doesn’t occur to them that this will work. As adults, my children enjoy a wide range of foods. There was a long period when one of them disliked tomatoes, but this is just a matter of taste, not fussiness. I notice that she now eats them. Barbara

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> At the risk of starting this thread up again, I cannot understand why > anyone would eat at McDonalds while on vacation–even on vacation in > the US. But then again, I don’t really like McDonalds and I don’t > really drink soft drinks (unless iced tea counts). Evidently, plenty > of other people do. > It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional > variation and people could simply be curious.  It is worth noting that > some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the > world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts.

Unless you’re a unix sysadmin then a hardrock cafe is a good chance to obtain a much needed addition to your wardrobe. — Jeroen Wijnands http://www.xs4all.nl/~wijnands "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit" Before you buy.

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> It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional > variation and people could simply be curious.  It is worth noting that > some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the > world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts.

You hit the nail right on the head, as far as I’m concerned. I love to travel, both domestic (USA) and in Europe.When I am in Europe, I eat at McDonalds once or twice for two reasons. First, I sometimes get a bit  homesick, and I am a McDonalds fan. Second, I like to see how European McDonalds differ from what I am used to at home in the Philadelphia area. One or two lunches at a McDonalds toward the end of a trip is plenty for me.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional > variation and people could simply be curious.  It is worth noting that > some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the > world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts. > You hit the nail right on the head, as far as I’m concerned. I love to > travel, > both domestic (USA) and in Europe.When I am in Europe, I eat at McDonalds > once or twice for two reasons. First, I sometimes get a bit  homesick, > and I > am a McDonalds fan. Second, I like to see how European McDonalds differ > from what I am used to at home in the Philadelphia area. One or two > lunches > at a McDonalds toward the end of a trip is plenty for me.

I was making fun of friends who mentioned eating at McDonalds.  They replied that one feature of eating at McDonalds is that you can find a restroom which is both clean and free. Dick

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