Filed under: Wedding Ring Jewelry
Question:
God I hope I don’t get flip answers to this one. Too much heartache tonight. I’m posting to get information about a drill purchased at a travelling power tools show. The drill’s a Cummings 1/2" hammer drill. A female member of the family, more knowledgeable of all aspects of home renovation than most of the guys, was using the drill purchased for $19.99 to drill out one-way screws from a Kwikset deadbolt. She tried a regular 1/4" bit, which didn’t work. A nice dude from a locksmithing company gave her a free replacement bit especially for Kwikset that would "get rid of the screw like butter." She must have inadvertently put the drill on lock. Then the new bit started working and according to the story, she bored in. Her gorgeous long hair got stuck in the chuck. To make a nightmare short, she was working alone, the drill was "this close" to boring a hole straight through her skull, long hair already scalped off, when she knew it was time to do something rash. She ditched the drill knowing it was still eating up her hair. She’s as all right now as a woman can be after having a third of her scalp removed. Girl has long hair since she was a baby and has done work on dead bolts for the last fifteen years, among other things, and only sometimes used barrette and routinely used all kinds of drills. She’s never had this kind of accident with any other model. I just want to know if it’s o.k. to sell tools in the US if they failed Underwriters or import or Food and Drug or Whatever tests. I never personall had a problem with the drill and kind of liked it until now. Now it’s a tomahawk with her beautiful hair so thick around the chuck I couldn’t even find the keyhole. Thanks from a really really really sad inlaw. Oh and I know about safety glasses, safety measures, great jokes about dumb blondes. Honest to Christ thank you in advance, I don’t need any more. Just want to know if this kid would have a claim against the company that made her look like a ghoul from the Sixth Sense. If there’s a law permitting cut-rate jobbers to sell tools that don’t meet specifications but allowing litigation… I never wished I was a lawyer until tonight.
Response:
Unless you can prove the drill locked itself, it’s her fault. If it was locked, what do you mean by "ditched the drill"? Blaming/suing the company will only cause us all grief. Otherwise, condolences. MH
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> God I hope I don’t get flip answers to this one. Too much heartache > tonight. I’m posting to get information about a drill purchased at a > travelling power tools show. The drill’s a Cummings 1/2" hammer > drill.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > God I hope I don’t get flip answers to this one. Too much heartache > tonight. I’m posting to get information about a drill purchased at a > travelling power tools show. The drill’s a Cummings 1/2" hammer > drill. > A female member of the family, more knowledgeable of all aspects of > home renovation than most of the guys, was using the drill purchased > for $19.99 to drill out one-way screws from a Kwikset deadbolt. She > tried a regular 1/4" bit, which didn’t work. A nice dude from a > locksmithing company gave her a free replacement bit especially for > Kwikset that would "get rid of the screw like butter." > She must have inadvertently put the drill on lock. Then the new bit > started working and according to the story, she bored in. Her > gorgeous long hair got stuck in the chuck. To make a nightmare short, > she was working alone, the drill was "this close" to boring a hole > straight through her skull, long hair already scalped off, when she > knew it was time to do something rash. She ditched the drill knowing > it was still eating up her hair. > She’s as all right now as a woman can be after having a third of her > scalp removed. Girl has long hair since she was a baby and has done > work on dead bolts for the last fifteen years, among other things, and > only sometimes used barrette and routinely used all kinds of drills. > She’s never had this kind of accident with any other model. > I just want to know if it’s o.k. to sell tools in the US if they > failed Underwriters or import or Food and Drug or Whatever tests. I > never personall had a problem with the drill and kind of liked it > until now. Now it’s a tomahawk with her beautiful hair so thick > around the chuck I couldn’t even find the keyhole. > Thanks from a really really really sad inlaw. Oh and I know about > safety glasses, safety measures, great jokes about dumb blondes. > Honest to Christ thank you in advance, I don’t need any more. Just > want to know if this kid would have a claim against the company that > made her look like a ghoul from the Sixth Sense. If there’s a law > permitting cut-rate jobbers to sell tools that don’t meet > specifications but allowing litigation… I never wished I was a > lawyer until tonight.
well i never paid much attention to the safety rules of long hair, being a boy, i always paid attention to the things like done let a tie hang over into the work area… wear safety glasses and the long sleeve shirt getting caught in the tools… i guess she violated the rule of long hair hanging onto the tool…..it could have happened with the elcheapo tools or the high end Ingersol Rand brand tools…. or for that matter some very high priced medical or scientific tools made for speical purposes if you dont take car of yourself and let your long hair hang… why do you(she) need a lawyer, how about a doctor??????
Response:
It is not a problem with the drill but one with the operator. One of the first rules of working with ANY rotating equipment is to confine hair to prevent it from winding around shafts or drill chucks in this case. Why sue a company for producing a product that works when the operator does not follow safety regulations. But, this is grist for the legal mill, if someone can successfully sue McDonalds for selling HOT coffee when they burn their crotch with it, I guess you can sue a tool maker for someone getting their hair wound up with it.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> God I hope I don’t get flip answers to this one. Too much heartache > tonight. I’m posting to get information about a drill purchased at a > travelling power tools show. The drill’s a Cummings 1/2" hammer > drill. > A female member of the family, more knowledgeable of all aspects of > home renovation than most of the guys, was using the drill purchased > for $19.99 to drill out one-way screws from a Kwikset deadbolt. She > tried a regular 1/4" bit, which didn’t work. A nice dude from a > locksmithing company gave her a free replacement bit especially for > Kwikset that would "get rid of the screw like butter." > She must have inadvertently put the drill on lock. Then the new bit > started working and according to the story, she bored in. Her > gorgeous long hair got stuck in the chuck. To make a nightmare short, > she was working alone, the drill was "this close" to boring a hole > straight through her skull, long hair already scalped off, when she > knew it was time to do something rash. She ditched the drill knowing > it was still eating up her hair. > She’s as all right now as a woman can be after having a third of her > scalp removed. Girl has long hair since she was a baby and has done > work on dead bolts for the last fifteen years, among other things, and > only sometimes used barrette and routinely used all kinds of drills. > She’s never had this kind of accident with any other model. > I just want to know if it’s o.k. to sell tools in the US if they > failed Underwriters or import or Food and Drug or Whatever tests. I > never personall had a problem with the drill and kind of liked it > until now. Now it’s a tomahawk with her beautiful hair so thick > around the chuck I couldn’t even find the keyhole. > Thanks from a really really really sad inlaw. Oh and I know about > safety glasses, safety measures, great jokes about dumb blondes. > Honest to Christ thank you in advance, I don’t need any more. Just > want to know if this kid would have a claim against the company that > made her look like a ghoul from the Sixth Sense. If there’s a law > permitting cut-rate jobbers to sell tools that don’t meet > specifications but allowing litigation… I never wished I was a > lawyer until tonight.
Response:
9.6 — Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
Response:
The same thing happened to me 31 years ago. I was a teenager working in construction for the Summer. I had to drill some holes through some ceiling joists using a name brand heavy duty angle drill with an extension bit. I had very long hair at the time. I climbed up on the ladder and found it awkward to hold the drill while balancing myself. The most comfortable position was having the drill on the side of my head against my shoulder. Next thing I know my head is getting pulled into the drill. Fortunately the trigger did not lock as in your case. After releasing the trigger I realized what had happened. Most of the hair on one side of my head got yanked out by the roots. I tied my hair back until the bald spot started to grow again and then had all of my hair cut off. For many years after that the part of my hair that grew back had a better texture than the other side. Many hairstylists commented on the difference in my hair from one side to the other. Now whenever I do ANY work I remove ALL jewelry including my wedding ring and wristwatch and I never wear anything around my neck and I always wear steel toe high back work shoes. I also keep a pair of gloves hooked on my belt using a clip that releases if excessive force is applied to them. In my case it was operator error. You could send a letter to the Federal Trade Commission. Be sure to include the model number, serial number, and name and address of the manufacturer. If they get enough complaints about the same thing they will look into the matter. I think that they have an online form for complaints such as these. I know many people prefer to do things themselves for various reasons such as saving money, enjoyment of working with tools, can’t find someone to do the work etc. I have been in the electrical trade for 30+ years and still do not know everything. Getting information to do something from a posting on the internet is not a substitute for my experience. You may look at something in your home or watch a home improvement show and think to yourself "I can do that". It may look easy, but don’t discount the fact that you do not have a truck full of tools for that trade nor do you have all of the materials needed on hand. Also, do you know what to do when something goes wrong? As an electrician I never know what I will find when I get to a job. Every house is different. One set of instructions does not apply to every situation. To put things in perspective consider this: Each of you has a profession. You work at a job that you have experience in. You work hard to make a living and have the necessary tools on hand to do your job correctly. Do you think that a person from off the street without any formal training and experience could watch a 30 minute TV show or read a book and know how to do everything as well as you? I should say thank you to all of the Do-it-Yourselfers out there. They have been good for my business. After they get too deep into a wiring project I will get a phone call. When someone moves into a house that a Do-it-Yourselfer has worked on I will get a phone call. After the fire has been put out as a result of someone doing something the wrong way, I will get a phone call. After someone has been cited by the building department or some other govenment agency, I will get a phone call. When someone is trying to sell their house and the home inspector found some things that were not safe, I will get a phone call. Don’t get me wrong. I am not telling you not to do work around your house. You can do many things safely and correctly and legally. Take the time to find out how to do it right. Make sure that you have the proper tools. Consider all of the things that could go wrong. This forum should only be one of many sources of information that you use to research your project. If it is a big job, consider hiring a professional for consultation purposes. Safety first. John Grabowski http://www.mrelectrician.tv
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks to everyone who answered, even the miserable folks. I posted > in the heat of the moment and except for investigating this model and > why it was sold so cheaply, i.e., in case there *was* a problem with > the lock sticking, will let the matter drop. > By "ditching the drill," I meant she had a split second decision to > make as the bit rotated up from the deadbolt toward her skull. She > litterally scalped herself, because she knew it she didn’t she was > going to die or be blinded. > Thanks again. To those of you who felt it necessary to point out > my/our stupidity, well, sort of reminded me mercy is shown to those > who show mercy. To those of you with kind condolences, hope your day > shines, cause you helped a lot.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> God I hope I don’t get flip answers to this one. Too much heartache > tonight. I’m posting to get information about a drill purchased at a > travelling power tools show. The drill’s a Cummings 1/2" hammer > drill. > You want information.. > A female member of the family, more knowledgeable of all aspects of > home renovation than most of the guys, was using the drill purchased > for $19.99 to drill out one-way screws from a Kwikset deadbolt. She > tried a regular 1/4" bit, which didn’t work. A nice dude from a > locksmithing company gave her a free replacement bit especially for > Kwikset that would "get rid of the screw like butter." > She must have inadvertently put the drill on lock. Then the new bit > started working and according to the story, she bored in. Her > gorgeous long hair got stuck in the chuck. To make a nightmare short, > she was working alone, the drill was "this close" to boring a hole > straight through her skull, long hair already scalped off, when she > knew it was time to do something rash. She ditched the drill knowing > it was still eating up her hair. > She’s as all right now as a woman can be after having a third of her > scalp removed. Girl has long hair since she was a baby and has done > work on dead bolts for the last fifteen years, among other things, and > only sometimes used barrette and routinely used all kinds of drills. > She’s never had this kind of accident with any other model. > Umm…such a contradiction. You state, shes more knowledgeable of all > aspects of home renovation than most guys…but yet, she used a drill, a 1/2 > inch model on top of that, ($20 1/2 inch drill??? Garbage?) and didnt pull > her hair back? All the guys I know with hair that long make sure its out of > the way before they pull the trigger.. > And, I suppose if the bit was working…it was broken as it was jerked out > of the hole it made as the drill pulled itself towards her head as the chuck > was spinning… > And…she ditched the drill..humm…..meaning she had time, at about 500RPM > (I havent checked the specs on that one, but one can assume it was that fast > or faster if shes drilling out a lock, ) to realize what was happening, toss > the drill, with it locked in ON position..and watch it continue to > climb..when if it was locked, most models just require you to snap the > trigger again… > I just want to know if it’s o.k. to sell tools in the US if they > failed Underwriters or import or Food and Drug or Whatever tests. I > never personall had a problem with the drill and kind of liked it > until now. Now it’s a tomahawk with her beautiful hair so thick > around the chuck I couldn’t even find the keyhole. > You sound like you are married to her…in all honesty.. > I read this post, and wish I could be on the jury that you get when you take > it to court. User assumes all responsibility when working with a tool. > I about got my finger cut off about 2 weeks ago in an accident…but at no > time did I consider a lawsuit…sheesh….and it wasnt with a power tool. > Thanks from a really really really sad inlaw. Oh and I know about > safety glasses, safety measures, great jokes about dumb blondes. > Honest to Christ thank you in advance, I don’t need any more. Just > want to know if this kid would have a claim against the company that > made her look like a ghoul from the Sixth Sense. If there’s a law > permitting cut-rate jobbers to sell tools that don’t meet > specifications but allowing litigation… I never wished I was a > lawyer until tonight. > No..if it really happened…while I feel for you, I think you are making a > mountain out of a molehill. > I have a Milwaukee that had she done that, it would not have stopped till it > ripped her head off… > Looking at your post, its either BS, and if its not, well, I am of the > opinion, from someone that wasnt there, that you have no case. > She bought a cheap drill. > She willingly used that cheap drill > She willingly used that drill with her hair down. > I went to the Cummins (not Cummings) web site and looked at the drills… > http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,531.html > Is that it? It is the ONLY Cummins that meets what you said…1/2 hammer… > IF you start a lawsuit over user error, can we sue you for stupid claims? > Its a shame that she got hurt but accidents happen, and a lawsuit not going > to do anything….and I doubt seriously, after this letter being posted on > the internet, that anyones gonna take it seriously. People are tired of > everyone being sued…its normally people that are looking for a free ride > that even think that… > So, dont worry about a lawsuit..worry about getting her taken care of….and > teach her the proper way to use power tools…THAT would be the BEST thing > you can do.
An old friend of mine was doing some remodeling on his house a few years back and picked up a board to cut it with his SkilSaw. He held the board in his hand and made the cut. When he had finished, he put the saw down and went to examine his cut board and realized that he had cut two of his fingers off where he was holding the board. His dog ate one of them. His wife took him to the hospital and they patched up the stub ends.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > God I hope I don’t get flip answers to this one. Too much heartache > > tonight. I’m posting to get information about a drill purchased at a > > travelling power tools show. The drill’s a Cummings 1/2" hammer > > drill. > Look, it is really unfortunate. But people ought to take responsibility > for > their mistakes instead of always passing the buck to someone else, like > George Bush does. > Except, in the case of George Bush, it really IS the other people’s fault.
You’ve been on drugs or what? Sure it IS his fault, it’s everyone else who IS paying for his lies. Shepherd
Response:
Thanks to everyone who answered, even the miserable folks. I posted in the heat of the moment and except for investigating this model and why it was sold so cheaply, i.e., in case there *was* a problem with the lock sticking, will let the matter drop. By "ditching the drill," I meant she had a split second decision to make as the bit rotated up from the deadbolt toward her skull. She litterally scalped herself, because she knew it she didn’t she was going to die or be blinded. Thanks again. To those of you who felt it necessary to point out my/our stupidity, well, sort of reminded me mercy is shown to those who show mercy. To those of you with kind condolences, hope your day shines, cause you helped a lot.
Response:
well there is good news. At least the next time she uses a drill at least the third of here hair that is missing wont get caught in the drill. If I was on the Jury I would not side with her. I would side with why didnt she tie back her hair.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> God I hope I don’t get flip answers to this one. Too much heartache > tonight. I’m posting to get information about a drill purchased at a > travelling power tools show. The drill’s a Cummings 1/2" hammer > drill. > A female member of the family, more knowledgeable of all aspects of > home renovation than most of the guys, was using the drill purchased > for $19.99 to drill out one-way screws from a Kwikset deadbolt. She > tried a regular 1/4" bit, which didn’t work. A nice dude from a > locksmithing company gave her a free replacement bit especially for > Kwikset that would "get rid of the screw like butter." > She must have inadvertently put the drill on lock. Then the new bit > started working and according to the story, she bored in. Her > gorgeous long hair got stuck in the chuck. To make a nightmare short, > she was working alone, the drill was "this close" to boring a hole > straight through her skull, long hair already scalped off, when she > knew it was time to do something rash. She ditched the drill knowing > it was still eating up her hair. > She’s as all right now as a woman can be after having a third of her > scalp removed. Girl has long hair since she was a baby and has done > work on dead bolts for the last fifteen years, among other things, and > only sometimes used barrette and routinely used all kinds of drills. > She’s never had this kind of accident with any other model. > I just want to know if it’s o.k. to sell tools in the US if they > failed Underwriters or import or Food and Drug or Whatever tests. I > never personall had a problem with the drill and kind of liked it > until now. Now it’s a tomahawk with her beautiful hair so thick > around the chuck I couldn’t even find the keyhole. > Thanks from a really really really sad inlaw. Oh and I know about > safety glasses, safety measures, great jokes about dumb blondes. > Honest to Christ thank you in advance, I don’t need any more. Just > want to know if this kid would have a claim against the company that > made her look like a ghoul from the Sixth Sense. If there’s a law > permitting cut-rate jobbers to sell tools that don’t meet > specifications but allowing litigation… I never wished I was a > lawyer until tonight.
Response:
>Thanks to everyone who answered, even the miserable folks. I posted >in the heat of the moment and except for investigating this model and >why it was sold so cheaply, i.e., in case there *was* a problem with >the lock sticking, will let the matter drop.
I don’t know how the lock works on a drill (or why you’d want one), but you mentioned that she might have "inadvertently" put the drill on lock. If there is a flaw in the design that would make that possible, or if a safety mechanism failed, then other people (including the manufacturer) should be made aware of this. For example, if the handle mechanism that cuts off power to electric lawnmowers didn’t release when the user let go of the handle, that would be dangerous. You can search for information on product recalls and problems at the Consumer Product Safety Commission website. http://www.cpsc.gov There is also a place to report injuries. You can fill out the on-line form or call 1-800-638-2772. Please do so. It would at least make you feel better that you did what you could to prevent this from happening to someone else. Sue(tm) Lead me not into temptation… I can find it myself! sue at interport dot net
Response:
>God I hope I don’t get flip answers to this one.
God I hope you’re not trolling. >Honest to Christ thank you in advance, I don’t need any more. Just >want to know if this kid would have a claim against the company that >made her look like a ghoul from the Sixth Sense. If there’s a law >permitting cut-rate jobbers to sell tools that don’t meet >specifications but allowing litigation… I never wished I was a >lawyer until tonight.
You should be on the phone to a lawyer, not soliciting advice from strangers in a Usenet newsgroup.
Response:
So, if I understand you correctly, you’ve come to alt.home.repair looking for legal advice? Stupidity must run in the family.
Response:
> God I hope I don’t get flip answers to this one. Too much heartache > tonight. I’m posting to get information about a drill purchased at a > travelling power tools show. The drill’s a Cummings 1/2" hammer > drill.
Look, it is really unfortunate. But people ought to take responsibility for their mistakes instead of always passing the buck to someone else, like George Bush does.
Response:
> God I hope I don’t get flip answers to this one. Too much heartache > tonight. I’m posting to get information about a drill purchased at a > travelling power tools show. The drill’s a Cummings 1/2" hammer > drill. > Look, it is really unfortunate. But people ought to take responsibility for > their mistakes instead of always passing the buck to someone else, like > George Bush does.
Except, in the case of George Bush, it really IS the other people’s fault. Ever hear of HIM getting his hair caught in a drill? No? I didn’t think so. Steve
Response:
> God I hope I don’t get flip answers to this one. Too much heartache > tonight. I’m posting to get information about a drill purchased at a > travelling power tools show. The drill’s a Cummings 1/2" hammer > drill.
You want information.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> A female member of the family, more knowledgeable of all aspects of > home renovation than most of the guys, was using the drill purchased > for $19.99 to drill out one-way screws from a Kwikset deadbolt. She > tried a regular 1/4" bit, which didn’t work. A nice dude from a > locksmithing company gave her a free replacement bit especially for > Kwikset that would "get rid of the screw like butter." > She must have inadvertently put the drill on lock. Then the new bit > started working and according to the story, she bored in. Her > gorgeous long hair got stuck in the chuck. To make a nightmare short, > she was working alone, the drill was "this close" to boring a hole > straight through her skull, long hair already scalped off, when she > knew it was time to do something rash. She ditched the drill knowing > it was still eating up her hair. > She’s as all right now as a woman can be after having a third of her > scalp removed. Girl has long hair since she was a baby and has done > work on dead bolts for the last fifteen years, among other things, and > only sometimes used barrette and routinely used all kinds of drills. > She’s never had this kind of accident with any other model.
Umm…such a contradiction. You state, shes more knowledgeable of all aspects of home renovation than most guys…but yet, she used a drill, a 1/2 inch model on top of that, ($20 1/2 inch drill??? Garbage?) and didnt pull her hair back? All the guys I know with hair that long make sure its out of the way before they pull the trigger.. And, I suppose if the bit was working…it was broken as it was jerked out of the hole it made as the drill pulled itself towards her head as the chuck was spinning… And…she ditched the drill..humm…..meaning she had time, at about 500RPM (I havent checked the specs on that one, but one can assume it was that fast or faster if shes drilling out a lock, ) to realize what was happening, toss the drill, with it locked in ON position..and watch it continue to climb..when if it was locked, most models just require you to snap the trigger again… > I just want to know if it’s o.k. to sell tools in the US if they > failed Underwriters or import or Food and Drug or Whatever tests. I > never personall had a problem with the drill and kind of liked it > until now. Now it’s a tomahawk with her beautiful hair so thick > around the chuck I couldn’t even find the keyhole.
You sound like you are married to her…in all honesty.. I read this post, and wish I could be on the jury that you get when you take it to court. User assumes all responsibility when working with a tool. I about got my finger cut off about 2 weeks ago in an accident…but at no time did I consider a lawsuit…sheesh….and it wasnt with a power tool. > Thanks from a really really really sad inlaw. Oh and I know about > safety glasses, safety measures, great jokes about dumb blondes. > Honest to Christ thank you in advance, I don’t need any more. Just > want to know if this kid would have a claim against the company that > made her look like a ghoul from the Sixth Sense. If there’s a law > permitting cut-rate jobbers to sell tools that don’t meet > specifications but allowing litigation… I never wished I was a > lawyer until tonight.
No..if it really happened…while I feel for you, I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. I have a Milwaukee that had she done that, it would not have stopped till it ripped her head off… Looking at your post, its either BS, and if its not, well, I am of the opinion, from someone that wasnt there, that you have no case. She bought a cheap drill. She willingly used that cheap drill She willingly used that drill with her hair down. I went to the Cummins (not Cummings) web site and looked at the drills… http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,531.html Is that it? It is the ONLY Cummins that meets what you said…1/2 hammer… IF you start a lawsuit over user error, can we sue you for stupid claims? Its a shame that she got hurt but accidents happen, and a lawsuit not going to do anything….and I doubt seriously, after this letter being posted on the internet, that anyones gonna take it seriously. People are tired of everyone being sued…its normally people that are looking for a free ride that even think that… So, dont worry about a lawsuit..worry about getting her taken care of….and teach her the proper way to use power tools…THAT would be the BEST thing you can do.
Response:
No problem. I truly wasn’t trying to be an ass.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yeah, degloving. I screwed up the terminology. > Not to be petty or anything, but this type of injury would not be > considered > an evulsion. Scalping is in a category all its own, but if I had to place > it in a category it would be more of a degloving injury. > > Sorry about the flip answers you hoped you wouldn’t get. But any drill > > would do this; any drill is easy to lock on, it’s just a button and you > have > > to be able to engage it one-handed. A less expensive, less powerful > drill > > would probably have stalled, but then it would stall while drilling too. > > I’m sorry about the accident; all such accidents are gruesome. As an > EMT > we > > had to watch movies and see pictures of folks with their hands turned > inside > > out from getting caught in rotating stuff (they call it "evulsion"). > Thank > > god I haven’t had to deal with something like that yet in person. > > But it wasn’t the fault of the machine. > > > God I hope I don’t get flip answers to this one. Too much heartache > > > tonight. I’m posting to get information about a drill purchased at a > > > travelling power tools show. The drill’s a Cummings 1/2" hammer > > > drill. > > > A female member of the family, more knowledgeable of all aspects of > > > home renovation than most of the guys, was using the drill purchased > > > for $19.99 to drill out one-way screws from a Kwikset deadbolt. She > > > tried a regular 1/4" bit, which didn’t work. A nice dude from a > > > locksmithing company gave her a free replacement bit especially for > > > Kwikset that would "get rid of the screw like butter." > > > She must have inadvertently put the drill on lock. Then the new bit > > > started working and according to the story, she bored in. Her > > > gorgeous long hair got stuck in the chuck. To make a nightmare short, > > > she was working alone, the drill was "this close" to boring a hole > > > straight through her skull, long hair already scalped off, when she > > > knew it was time to do something rash. She ditched the drill knowing > > > it was still eating up her hair. > > > She’s as all right now as a woman can be after having a third of her > > > scalp removed. Girl has long hair since she was a baby and has done > > > work on dead bolts for the last fifteen years, among other things, and > > > only sometimes used barrette and routinely used all kinds of drills. > > > She’s never had this kind of accident with any other model. > > > I just want to know if it’s o.k. to sell tools in the US if they > > > failed Underwriters or import or Food and Drug or Whatever tests. I > > > never personall had a problem with the drill and kind of liked it > > > until now. Now it’s a tomahawk with her beautiful hair so thick > > > around the chuck I couldn’t even find the keyhole. > > > Thanks from a really really really sad inlaw. Oh and I know about > > > safety glasses, safety measures, great jokes about dumb blondes. > > > Honest to Christ thank you in advance, I don’t need any more. Just > > > want to know if this kid would have a claim against the company that > > > made her look like a ghoul from the Sixth Sense. If there’s a law > > > permitting cut-rate jobbers to sell tools that don’t meet > > > specifications but allowing litigation… I never wished I was a > > > lawyer until tonight.
Response:
Yeah, degloving. I screwed up the terminology.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Not to be petty or anything, but this type of injury would not be considered > an evulsion. Scalping is in a category all its own, but if I had to place > it in a category it would be more of a degloving injury. > Sorry about the flip answers you hoped you wouldn’t get. But any drill > would do this; any drill is easy to lock on, it’s just a button and you > have > to be able to engage it one-handed. A less expensive, less powerful drill > would probably have stalled, but then it would stall while drilling too. > I’m sorry about the accident; all such accidents are gruesome. As an EMT > we > had to watch movies and see pictures of folks with their hands turned > inside > out from getting caught in rotating stuff (they call it "evulsion"). > Thank > god I haven’t had to deal with something like that yet in person. > But it wasn’t the fault of the machine. > > God I hope I don’t get flip answers to this one. Too much heartache > > tonight. I’m posting to get information about a drill purchased at a > > travelling power tools show. The drill’s a Cummings 1/2" hammer > > drill. > > A female member of the family, more knowledgeable of all aspects of > > home renovation than most of the guys, was using the drill purchased > > for $19.99 to drill out one-way screws from a Kwikset deadbolt. She > > tried a regular 1/4" bit, which didn’t work. A nice dude from a > > locksmithing company gave her a free replacement bit especially for > > Kwikset that would "get rid of the screw like butter." > > She must have inadvertently put the drill on lock. Then the new bit > > started working and according to the story, she bored in. Her > > gorgeous long hair got stuck in the chuck. To make a nightmare short, > > she was working alone, the drill was "this close" to boring a hole > > straight through her skull, long hair already scalped off, when she > > knew it was time to do something rash. She ditched the drill knowing > > it was still eating up her hair. > > She’s as all right now as a woman can be after having a third of her > > scalp removed. Girl has long hair since she was a baby and has done > > work on dead bolts for the last fifteen years, among other things, and > > only sometimes used barrette and routinely used all kinds of drills. > > She’s never had this kind of accident with any other model. > > I just want to know if it’s o.k. to sell tools in the US if they > > failed Underwriters or import or Food and Drug or Whatever tests. I > > never personall had a problem with the drill and kind of liked it > > until now. Now it’s a tomahawk with her beautiful hair so thick > > around the chuck I couldn’t even find the keyhole. > > Thanks from a really really really sad inlaw. Oh and I know about > > safety glasses, safety measures, great jokes about dumb blondes. > > Honest to Christ thank you in advance, I don’t need any more. Just > > want to know if this kid would have a claim against the company that > > made her look like a ghoul from the Sixth Sense. If there’s a law > > permitting cut-rate jobbers to sell tools that don’t meet > > specifications but allowing litigation… I never wished I was a > > lawyer until tonight.
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Anyone with an ounce of brains knows that you do not use rotating machinery around long sleeves, gloves, and long hair.
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Cowa Bungie writes: > I just want to know if it’s o.k. to sell tools in the US if they > failed Underwriters or import or Food and Drug or Whatever tests.
Unclear whether UL listing covers locking power switches. More to do with electrical hazards. The switch may have been defective, even if one ought to know about the hair hazard. So the manufacturer may have some liability. The tort system is supposed to determine that, flawed as it may be.
Response:
Not to be petty or anything, but this type of injury would not be considered an evulsion. Scalping is in a category all its own, but if I had to place it in a category it would be more of a degloving injury.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sorry about the flip answers you hoped you wouldn’t get. But any drill > would do this; any drill is easy to lock on, it’s just a button and you have > to be able to engage it one-handed. A less expensive, less powerful drill > would probably have stalled, but then it would stall while drilling too. > I’m sorry about the accident; all such accidents are gruesome. As an EMT we > had to watch movies and see pictures of folks with their hands turned inside > out from getting caught in rotating stuff (they call it "evulsion"). Thank > god I haven’t had to deal with something like that yet in person. > But it wasn’t the fault of the machine. > God I hope I don’t get flip answers to this one. Too much heartache > tonight. I’m posting to get information about a drill purchased at a > travelling power tools show. The drill’s a Cummings 1/2" hammer > drill. > A female member of the family, more knowledgeable of all aspects of > home renovation than most of the guys, was using the drill purchased > for $19.99 to drill out one-way screws from a Kwikset deadbolt. She > tried a regular 1/4" bit, which didn’t work. A nice dude from a > locksmithing company gave her a free replacement bit especially for > Kwikset that would "get rid of the screw like butter." > She must have inadvertently put the drill on lock. Then the new bit > started working and according to the story, she bored in. Her > gorgeous long hair got stuck in the chuck. To make a nightmare short, > she was working alone, the drill was "this close" to boring a hole > straight through her skull, long hair already scalped off, when she > knew it was time to do something rash. She ditched the drill knowing > it was still eating up her hair. > She’s as all right now as a woman can be after having a third of her > scalp removed. Girl has long hair since she was a baby and has done > work on dead bolts for the last fifteen years, among other things, and > only sometimes used barrette and routinely used all kinds of drills. > She’s never had this kind of accident with any other model. > I just want to know if it’s o.k. to sell tools in the US if they > failed Underwriters or import or Food and Drug or Whatever tests. I > never personall had a problem with the drill and kind of liked it > until now. Now it’s a tomahawk with her beautiful hair so thick > around the chuck I couldn’t even find the keyhole. > Thanks from a really really really sad inlaw. Oh and I know about > safety glasses, safety measures, great jokes about dumb blondes. > Honest to Christ thank you in advance, I don’t need any more. Just > want to know if this kid would have a claim against the company that > made her look like a ghoul from the Sixth Sense. If there’s a law > permitting cut-rate jobbers to sell tools that don’t meet > specifications but allowing litigation… I never wished I was a > lawyer until tonight.
Response:
> Just want to know if this kid would have a claim against the company that > made her look like a ghoul from the Sixth Sense. If there’s a law permitting > cut-rate jobbers to sell tools that don’t meet specifications but
allowing > litigation… I never wished I was a lawyer until tonight. I am not a lawyer, but if you are interested in pursuing civil charges I think you’ll find that it just doesn’t matter what the law says relative to "specifications". In this day and age, anyone can sue anyone else for almost anything, or so it seems. In any case, IMHO this forum is not the right place to get that kind of advice.
Response:
> Thanks from a really really really sad inlaw. Oh and I know about > safety glasses, safety measures, great jokes about dumb blondes. > Honest to Christ thank you in advance, I don’t need any more. Just > want to know if this kid would have a claim against the company that > made her look like a ghoul from the Sixth Sense. If there’s a law > permitting cut-rate jobbers to sell tools that don’t meet > specifications but allowing litigation… I never wished I was a > lawyer until tonight.
I doubt it, ever hear of a hair net, etc… thats why dudes with long hair use a baseball cap. any drill would do this to her.
Response:
Sorry about the flip answers you hoped you wouldn’t get. But any drill would do this; any drill is easy to lock on, it’s just a button and you have to be able to engage it one-handed. A less expensive, less powerful drill would probably have stalled, but then it would stall while drilling too. I’m sorry about the accident; all such accidents are gruesome. As an EMT we had to watch movies and see pictures of folks with their hands turned inside out from getting caught in rotating stuff (they call it "evulsion"). Thank god I haven’t had to deal with something like that yet in person. But it wasn’t the fault of the machine.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> God I hope I don’t get flip answers to this one. Too much heartache > tonight. I’m posting to get information about a drill purchased at a > travelling power tools show. The drill’s a Cummings 1/2" hammer > drill. > A female member of the family, more knowledgeable of all aspects of > home renovation than most of the guys, was using the drill purchased > for $19.99 to drill out one-way screws from a Kwikset deadbolt. She > tried a regular 1/4" bit, which didn’t work. A nice dude from a > locksmithing company gave her a free replacement bit especially for > Kwikset that would "get rid of the screw like butter." > She must have inadvertently put the drill on lock. Then the new bit > started working and according to the story, she bored in. Her > gorgeous long hair got stuck in the chuck. To make a nightmare short, > she was working alone, the drill was "this close" to boring a hole > straight through her skull, long hair already scalped off, when she > knew it was time to do something rash. She ditched the drill knowing > it was still eating up her hair. > She’s as all right now as a woman can be after having a third of her > scalp removed. Girl has long hair since she was a baby and has done > work on dead bolts for the last fifteen years, among other things, and > only sometimes used barrette and routinely used all kinds of drills. > She’s never had this kind of accident with any other model. > I just want to know if it’s o.k. to sell tools in the US if they > failed Underwriters or import or Food and Drug or Whatever tests. I > never personall had a problem with the drill and kind of liked it > until now. Now it’s a tomahawk with her beautiful hair so thick > around the chuck I couldn’t even find the keyhole. > Thanks from a really really really sad inlaw. Oh and I know about > safety glasses, safety measures, great jokes about dumb blondes. > Honest to Christ thank you in advance, I don’t need any more. Just > want to know if this kid would have a claim against the company that > made her look like a ghoul from the Sixth Sense. If there’s a law > permitting cut-rate jobbers to sell tools that don’t meet > specifications but allowing litigation… I never wished I was a > lawyer until tonight.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> God I hope I don’t get flip answers to this one. Too much heartache > tonight. I’m posting to get information about a drill purchased at a > travelling power tools show. The drill’s a Cummings 1/2" hammer > drill. > A female member of the family, more knowledgeable of all aspects of > home renovation than most of the guys, was using the drill purchased > for $19.99 to drill out one-way screws from a Kwikset deadbolt. She > tried a regular 1/4" bit, which didn’t work. A nice dude from a > locksmithing company gave her a free replacement bit especially for > Kwikset that would "get rid of the screw like butter." > She must have inadvertently put the drill on lock. Then the new bit > started working and according to the story, she bored in. Her > gorgeous long hair got stuck in the chuck. To make a nightmare short, > she was working alone, the drill was "this close" to boring a hole > straight through her skull, long hair already scalped off, when she > knew it was time to do something rash. She ditched the drill knowing > it was still eating up her hair. > She’s as all right now as a woman can be after having a third of her > scalp removed. Girl has long hair since she was a baby and has done > work on dead bolts for the last fifteen years, among other things, and > only sometimes used barrette and routinely used all kinds of drills. > She’s never had this kind of accident with any other model. > I just want to know if it’s o.k. to sell tools in the US if they > failed Underwriters or import or Food and Drug or Whatever tests. I > never personall had a problem with the drill and kind of liked it > until now. Now it’s a tomahawk with her beautiful hair so thick > around the chuck I couldn’t even find the keyhole. > Thanks from a really really really sad inlaw. Oh and I know about > safety glasses, safety measures, great jokes about dumb blondes. > Honest to Christ thank you in advance, I don’t need any more. Just > want to know if this kid would have a claim against the company that > made her look like a ghoul from the Sixth Sense. If there’s a law > permitting cut-rate jobbers to sell tools that don’t meet > specifications but allowing litigation… I never wished I was a > lawyer until tonight.
There is not a rotating hand tool made that is "hair proof". Considering that she has done this type work for 15 years without an accident can only be attributed to dumb luck. I am really curious as to why you are looking for someone to sue when it is clearly operator stupidity.
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Question:
We have thoroughly searched the Tampa Bay area for wedding rings. And have narrowed the search down to two different places, one being Helzburg Jewelers in a local mall. Our sales person (also the store manager – on her tag)has been reluctant to negotiate on the price. is this helzburg’s company philosophy?
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> We have thoroughly searched the Tampa Bay area for wedding rings. And > have narrowed the search down to two different places, one being > Helzburg Jewelers in a local mall. Our sales person (also the store > manager – on her tag)has been reluctant to negotiate on the price. is > this helzburg’s company philosophy?
I’m no jewelry expert, but I wouldn’t recommend buying jewelry from a national chain. The mall is probably not the best place either. Try local "mom and pop" type stores. Better service and they should give you a fair price since they need to eat, not satisfy the "southeast regional manager."
Response:
> I’m no jewelry expert, but I wouldn’t recommend buying jewelry from a > national chain. The mall is probably not the best place either. Try local > "mom and pop" type stores. Better service and they should give you a fair > price since they need to eat, not satisfy the "southeast regional
manager." That may be true, but if you can only find this ring in a national chain then this complicates things somewhat. Unless you can get the ring specially made up.
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Question:
> I made the appt. w/the jeweler on friday for future groom and myself to pick > out our wedding bands. i’m so excited:) > –kel
Fun! We just bought ours 2 weeks ago. We didn’t have to make an appointment, but ours was from a shop and not a jewelry designer. Unfortunately, the band that FH wants has to be special ordered since they don’t have his size (they can’t easily re-size one because of the decoration on the sides). They can’t guarantee that his ring will be in before the wedding 
They did give (well, sold) us the same ring in a bigger size, and stuck a temporary sizer on it, so he can still wear it for the ceremony. When his comes in, we just bring the big one in and do an even exchange. It’s kinda funny–I like my wedding ring so much, I keep getting the urge to wear it. FH laughs at me because I pull it out to look at so often. Oh well, only 3 weeks to go 
–twinkle to ms 7/7/01
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yay!!! which style? i am soo excited for you!! how did the appointment go? any tips for those of us who haven’t gone wedding band shopping yet?? -lee
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I made the appt. w/the jeweler on friday for future groom and myself to pick > out our wedding bands. i’m so excited:) > –kel
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>yay!!! >which style? i am soo excited for you!! how did the appointment go? any >tips for those of us who haven’t gone wedding band shopping yet??
it went great! i think we picked them out in 10 minutes:) the jeweler is a family friend, which is always nice. i knew i wanted just a thin white gold band w/little diamonds going around (but not all the way around). the fiance got a wider white gold band, plain, but it has sort of a line on the top and bottom and it goes in a little bit there to fit his finger better. so we are totally stoked. now we just have to mail our those dang invitations! –kel
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I made the appt. w/the jeweler on friday for future groom and myself to pick out our wedding bands. i’m so excited:) –kel
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Question:
> It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional > variation and people could simply be curious. It is worth noting that > some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the > world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts.
You hit the nail right on the head, as far as I’m concerned. I love to travel, both domestic (USA) and in Europe.When I am in Europe, I eat at McDonalds once or twice for two reasons. First, I sometimes get a bit homesick, and I am a McDonalds fan. Second, I like to see how European McDonalds differ from what I am used to at home in the Philadelphia area. One or two lunches at a McDonalds toward the end of a trip is plenty for me.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional > variation and people could simply be curious. It is worth noting that > some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the > world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts. > You hit the nail right on the head, as far as I’m concerned. I love to > travel, > both domestic (USA) and in Europe.When I am in Europe, I eat at McDonalds > once or twice for two reasons. First, I sometimes get a bit homesick, > and I > am a McDonalds fan. Second, I like to see how European McDonalds differ > from what I am used to at home in the Philadelphia area. One or two > lunches > at a McDonalds toward the end of a trip is plenty for me.
I was making fun of friends who mentioned eating at McDonalds. They replied that one feature of eating at McDonalds is that you can find a restroom which is both clean and free. Dick
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You are on Vacation! Leave the job at home..no cell phone..maybe even no laptop. You can always go to the cybercafes.Get a drip-dry hair style. Guys,grow a beard. There,we’ve left the dryer and the shaver at home and no one will know how you are supposed to look and you can stand to look at a different you in the mirror for three weeks. Don’t try to drive..enjoy the leisure of train travel. Leave most of your things at home..enjoy shopping here and there. Don’t set a castiron schedule,loaf and schmooze. No jewelry..except your wedding rings..fewer things to lose. Take a tiny or disposable camera, unless you dream of being Ansel Adams. Learn some of the language..please and thank you, for starts. Enjoy the difference..don’t need Coke, try Orangina..don’t crave Macdooodooo, try a sandwich of the local cheese and sausage, ham, dried beef. Go in the off season,heavens, you might just get by with NO reservations anywhere! Try a room with a shared bath for a night or two..you might enjoy the economy. Most of all, go with the determination to have a happy time. glen black — Glen’s Multifarious Page http://sites.netscape.net/willgeewillgee/homepage
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You are on Vacation! Leave the job at home..no cell phone..maybe even > no laptop. You can always go to the cybercafes.Get a drip-dry hair > style. Guys,grow a beard. There,we’ve left the dryer and the shaver at > home and no one will know how you are supposed to look and you can stand > to look at a different you in the mirror for three weeks. Don’t try to > drive..enjoy the leisure of train travel. Leave most of your things at > home..enjoy shopping here and there. Don’t set a castiron schedule,loaf > and schmooze. No jewelry..except your wedding rings..fewer things to > lose. Take a tiny or disposable camera, unless you dream of being Ansel > Adams. Learn some of the language..please and thank you, for starts. > Enjoy the difference..don’t need Coke, try Orangina..don’t crave > Macdooodooo, try a sandwich of the local cheese and sausage, ham, dried > beef. Go in the off season,heavens, you might just get by with NO > reservations anywhere! Try a room with a shared bath for a night or > two..you might enjoy the economy. Most of all, go with the > determination to have a happy time. glen black > — > Glen’s Multifarious Page > http://sites.netscape.net/willgeewillgee/homepage
Well said! which is to say, I share many of your biases.
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>Try a room with a shared bath
It’s difficult to get more than one person into most baths. — Michael Forrest
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In general, I agree with the philosophy. But after a couple of days of not shaving, I find my whiskers scratchy and uncomfortable. So I shave. But not everyday. At the risk of starting this thread up again, I cannot understand why anyone would eat at McDonalds while on vacation–even on vacation in the US. But then again, I don’t really like McDonalds and I don’t really drink soft drinks (unless iced tea counts). Evidently, plenty of other people do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You are on Vacation! Leave the job at home..no cell phone..maybe even > no laptop. You can always go to the cybercafes.Get a drip-dry hair > style. Guys,grow a beard. There,we’ve left the dryer and the shaver at > home and no one will know how you are supposed to look and you can stand > to look at a different you in the mirror for three weeks. Don’t try to > drive..enjoy the leisure of train travel. Leave most of your things at > home..enjoy shopping here and there. Don’t set a castiron schedule,loaf > and schmooze. No jewelry..except your wedding rings..fewer things to > lose. Take a tiny or disposable camera, unless you dream of being Ansel > Adams. Learn some of the language..please and thank you, for starts. > Enjoy the difference..don’t need Coke, try Orangina..don’t crave > Macdooodooo, try a sandwich of the local cheese and sausage, ham, dried > beef. Go in the off season,heavens, you might just get by with NO > reservations anywhere! Try a room with a shared bath for a night or > two..you might enjoy the economy. Most of all, go with the > determination to have a happy time. glen black > — > Glen’s Multifarious Page > http://sites.netscape.net/willgeewillgee/homepage
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> At the risk of starting this thread up again, I cannot understand why > anyone would eat at McDonalds while on vacation–even on vacation in > the US. But then again, I don’t really like McDonalds and I don’t > really drink soft drinks (unless iced tea counts). Evidently, plenty > of other people do.
It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional variation and people could simply be curious. It is worth noting that some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts. — Guy Robinson www.legendary.freeserve.co.uk [all standard disclaimers apply] Before you buy.
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> It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional > variation and people could simply be curious. It is worth noting that > some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the > world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts.
I do have a hard time justifying McDOnald’s, but some reasons that epople might eat (upon occasion) at ubiquitous American-style chain restaurants include: 1. I ate at a Hard Rock Cafe in Cozumel one year in Mexico, because I desperately wanted fresh salad, or any raw vegetable. I;d been very good aobut not e eating them to avoid montezuma’s revenge. 2. Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, generally not being open to trying new foods. This does NOT mean that won’t when they are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. 3. The t-shirts. If you travelk with teens,t hose shirts are the coolest 4. Time. I ate at a Burger King in Amsterdam bone time becaused tickets for a wine and cheese tour of the canals in 40 minutes. My experience of Amsterdam, and all of Europe, is that they are gearted to more leisurely dining; which I generally prefer. But sometimes things just do not turn out right! Julie
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>2. Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >generally not being open to trying new foods. This does NOT mean that won’t >when they >are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of >good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar.
I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe. It’s tooa great extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is handled. Of course that’s IMHO. — <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe posted 21 June 2000
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> At the risk of starting this thread up again, I cannot understand why > anyone would eat at McDonalds while on vacation–even on vacation in > the US. But then again, I don’t really like McDonalds and I don’t > really drink soft drinks (unless iced tea counts). Evidently, plenty > of other people do. > It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional > variation and people could simply be curious. It is worth noting that > some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the > world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts.
Unless you’re a unix sysadmin then a hardrock cafe is a good chance to obtain a much needed addition to your wardrobe. — Jeroen Wijnands http://www.xs4all.nl/~wijnands "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit" Before you buy.
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[ Robert Buxbaum didn't say this, but I don't know who did:] >>2. Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >>generally not being open to trying new foods. This does NOT mean that won’t >>when they >>are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe. It’s tooa great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled. Of course that’s IMHO.
[ I trimmed a lot of this ] > I beg to differ. I have children who grew up to be extrordinarily wide raging > in their tastes …. Still at 4 and 7, and other > times in his development, h had a very limited list of what he would eat.
… Now that my kids are mostly adults, > … they will try most anything… but whent hey were small children, they had their times > when they were picky. When I travelled with them at those ages, we did > occasionally stop at Burger Doodle or whatever, just to get a meal into > them (and often got cereal for breakfst to help them start theday with > soemthing familiar) > Do you have children? Did then NEVER go through this kind of thing?
I have two children, now adults, and I had great success by not getting involved in any way with their food likes and dislikes. I prepared meals, set them in front of them and neither encouraged them to try anything nor insisted that they eat at all. From the time they could pick up a piece of food and stuff it in their mouths, I allowed them to feed themselves and cleaned up the mess afterwards. I never bought "baby food", only made sure that the food I placed in front of them was mashed or otherwise safe for toothless babies. I didn’t buy cookies or any other processed foods, however. I had very little money when my children were small and I saved on the grocery bill by making everything, from cereal to bread, from scratch. (For example, I learned that I could grind ordinary rice in my coffee grinder to make a very inexpensive hot cereal for our breakfasts, instead of buying "Cream of Rice".) My children never went through any fussy stages; or if they did, I didn’t notice. I think such stages are attempts to exercise a little parental control and if they think Mom doesn’t really care what they eat or don’t eat, it doesn’t occur to them that this will work. As adults, my children enjoy a wide range of foods. There was a long period when one of them disliked tomatoes, but this is just a matter of taste, not fussiness. I notice that she now eats them. Barbara
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Never having raised a child, of course I have very definite ideas on the subject (;->). However, I think parents worry too much about "dealing with a hungry kid" – if they’re REALLY hungry, they’ll eat whatever they’re given – or make do with bread or something equally familiar – all but the most exotic meals include something of that nature. And if they are normally well fed, missing a meal or two will do them no lasting harm, just make them appreciate the next one more! (It works with cats, too, and there ain’t NOTHING as fussy as a well fed cat – even when they started life as strays, it’s suprising how quickly they become "finicky" when they learn there’s always food available!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My granddaughter (age 4) will TRY anything, as long as she’s assured it’s "not > too spicy", but won’t always plow ahead & make a meal of it; if we don’t want to > have a hungry kid to deal with, it’s good to have something relatively familiar > in reserve.
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> It may work for you and for lot’s of us, but some people want to look their > best and travel to dine at the best restaurants, go to the opera, etc. They > may be more comfortable wearing their best clothes and spending time > grooming during the trip.
Yeah, you got it! (I AM taking all the advice to "pack light" – but it’s the "sporty" wardrobe, rather than the dressy one, that’s going to stay home!)
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Well, being a product of the Great Depression" and a home where you ate what was served, or you didn’t eat until the next meal, I learned early not to be "picky" about my food. (That doesn’t mean I’m not particular about what I prepare for myself or order in a restaurant, but if it’s fit to eat, I CAN eat it – whether or not I happen to like it.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->2. Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >generally not being open to trying new foods. This does NOT mean that won’t >when they >are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of >good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe. It’s tooa great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled. Of course that’s IMHO. > — > <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel > - > new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe > posted 21 June 2000
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>To be sure one child is far less than half as hard to raise than two and you >may have more. It’s a lot easier to focus on one stage at a time.
I have heard the opposite said, that with several they largely raise each other. We only had two and no control to compare with – so very unscientific. My wife was one of three, the eldest of them, covering quite an age range. There are certainly photos of her doing some of the raising of younger brother. He turned out very useful later by becoming a doctor. — Michael Forrest
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>>To be sure one child is far less than half as hard to raise than two and >you >may have more. It’s a lot easier to focus on one stage at a time. >I have heard the opposite said, that with several they largely raise >each other.
You probably have a good point, but only after a certain number. Like other things in life, it’s the getting there that will kill you. — <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe posted 21 June 2000
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but as he said you might really like it :)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Try a room with a shared bath > It’s difficult to get more than one person into most baths. > — > Michael Forrest
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I haven’t eaten at McD’s while in Europe (need to save room for the gelato and wine), but let’s not forget they have GREAT public bathrooms! Iced tea? I live on the stuff, unsweetened, and have withdrawal in Europe- no ice – only that canned sweetened stuff. I end up substituting water and wine. In London, after 4 weeks in Europe, I resorted to ordering (in a Burger King) a hot tea, and 2 cups of ice. Wonderful……. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >At the risk of starting this thread up again, I cannot understand why >anyone would eat at McDonalds while on vacation–even on vacation in the >US. But then again, I don’t really like McDonalds and I don’t really >drink soft drinks (unless iced tea counts). Evidently, plenty of other >people do.
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>My granddaughter (age 4) will TRY anything, as long as she’s assured it’s >"not >too spicy", but won’t always plow ahead & make a meal of it; if we don’t >want to >have a hungry kid to deal with, it’s good to have something relatively >familiar >in reserve.
I’ll bet that if you provide enough choices she’ll find something she’ll eat. The mere fact that there are lots of choices will also enable her to convince herself she’s made the choice and not you. But yes, there are usually foods that are safer than others and parents are generally aware of the parameters within which they can work. I also recall my daughter could say "no" at four for reasons of her own. Had she managed to get us to feed her a diet of only one thing, she’d find the day to say no to that if only for sport. It’s a four year old thing, a stage if you will and a difficult one for me if only because our daughter sensed how much I was amazed by her determination. ;-) — <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe posted 21 June 2000
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>2. Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >>generally not being open to trying new foods. This does NOT mean that >>won’t >>when they >>are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >>Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot >>of >>good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe. It’s tooa > great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at > home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled. Of course that’s IMHO. >I beg to differ. I have children who grew up to be extrordinarily wide >raging >in their tastes, including a son who, at 10, woudl eat sushi (yes, the kind >with raw fish, not just california rolls), almost any ethnic food you could >introduce him to, and loved trying new things. Still at 4 and 7, and other >times in his development, h had a very limited list of what he would eat. >Indeed there are times in development when a child needs the security of the >familiar, and when much of the familiar is gone, i.e. when he or she is tra- >velling, they will often refuse new foods. Now that my kids are mostly >adults, >(the youngest is 16_) they will try most anything, and they get the chance >to >eat a vgreat variety of food at home (as I enjoy ethnic and international >cooking and dining) but whent hey were small children, they had their times >when they were picky. When I travelled with them at those ages, we did >occasionally stop at Burger Doodle or whatever, just to get a meal into >them (and often got cereal for breakfst to help them start theday with >soemthing familiar) >Note that I am talking about small children, but I believe that this is a >phenomen recognized by most child rearing books and guides, and by most >pediatricians. >Do you have children? Did then NEVER go through this kind of thing?
Last first. Yes, yes, but not to an extent that it modified our lives in any significant way. We never traveled abroad until she was about eleven, unless you count the Caribbean, but that was to see grandma, where she ate whatever grandma cooked or whatever we picked up at the beach stands. She’s in her late twenties and married to a French chef for whatever that’s worth. ;-) Although she referred to me as the food snob while she was in high school, her palate is far more discriminating than mine now. We may disagree, but note that I merely said this is less universal than some people believe and, IMHO, to a great extent encouraged by parental reaction. We generally followed our pediatrician’s advice that it’s unlkely for a child to starve if there’s food around. She ate what we ate at home or waited until we served something she liked. We never insisted she eat anything, although we may have insisted she try some things. To be fair, as soon as she could speak she was allowed a say in what was served and we’d prepare her favorite things several times a week. Yes, it helps to occasionally give in and all children have their picky periods, but I’m not at all convinced that parental reaction doesn’t lengthen those periods far more often than not. I took my daughter to a Burger King once. (kids get all sort of experiences from other kids and their families – I think that’s healthy) Too many American’s, and this is not in anyway directed at you, don’t sit down together at dinner as a family and too many Americans don’t treat dinner as an exciting event in the day. It’s a chore to shop, it’s a chore to cook and soon enough it’s a chore to eat. Put that on top of a historical puritanism that discourged enjoyment of temporal life anyway and lots of people still don’t really enjoy meals the way they do, or did, in France, Italy or Spain. It’s easier to use food as a tool in asserting yourself when it’s not an important joy in your life. It’s far easier to see it as a comfort when you can associate with one kind of food more than another. For me it was easier tollow my daughter to go to a fancy restaurant in jeans that to be unable to go to the restaurant. I’m perfectly aware that most people would give up on the food if their child would dress properly. Once again it’s not so much a value judgement than it is a recognition that we make our own problems all too often. To be sure one child is far less than half as hard to raise than two and you may have more. It’s a lot easier to focus on one stage at a time. Yes, kids go through stages, but no it shouldn’t disrupt your life, and I don’t think an occasionally stop at Burger Doodle, here or abroad, is necessarily a major disruption either. I’m so far off topic and irrelevant to the group, so I’ll stop. — <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe posted 21 June 2000
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> (snip) > 4. Time. I ate at a Burger King in Amsterdam bone time becaused tickets > for a wine and cheese tour of the canals in 40 minutes. My experience of > Amsterdam, and all of Europe, is that they are gearted to more leisurely > dining; which I generally prefer. But sometimes things just do not > turn out right! > Julie > In Amsterdam you could try a Febo – both faster (pop in the coins, open the > little glass door, & there’s your kroket) & IMO tastier than Burger King.
Yes, but at the time I didn’t know that. It was our second night in Amsterdam and we’d gotten the tour tickets at the last minute, and BK was nearby. Julie
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(snip) > 4. Time. I ate at a Burger King in Amsterdam bone time becaused tickets > for a wine and cheese tour of the canals in 40 minutes. My experience of > Amsterdam, and all of Europe, is that they are gearted to more leisurely > dining; which I generally prefer. But sometimes things just do not > turn out right! > Julie
In Amsterdam you could try a Febo – both faster (pop in the coins, open the little glass door, & there’s your kroket) & IMO tastier than Burger King.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->2. Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >generally not being open to trying new foods. This does NOT mean that won’t >when they >are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of >good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe. It’s tooa great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled. Of course that’s IMHO.
My granddaughter (age 4) will TRY anything, as long as she’s assured it’s "not too spicy", but won’t always plow ahead & make a meal of it; if we don’t want to have a hungry kid to deal with, it’s good to have something relatively familiar in reserve.
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>>2. Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >generally not being open to trying new foods. This does NOT mean that won’t >when they >are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of >good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe. It’s tooa great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled. Of course that’s IMHO.
I beg to differ. I have children who grew up to be extrordinarily wide raging in their tastes, including a son who, at 10, woudl eat sushi (yes, the kind with raw fish, not just california rolls), almost any ethnic food you could introduce him to, and loved trying new things. Still at 4 and 7, and other times in his development, h had a very limited list of what he would eat. Indeed there are times in development when a child needs the security of the familiar, and when much of the familiar is gone, i.e. when he or she is tra- velling, they will often refuse new foods. Now that my kids are mostly adults, (the youngest is 16_) they will try most anything, and they get the chance to eat a vgreat variety of food at home (as I enjoy ethnic and international cooking and dining) but whent hey were small children, they had their times when they were picky. When I travelled with them at those ages, we did occasionally stop at Burger Doodle or whatever, just to get a meal into them (and often got cereal for breakfst to help them start theday with soemthing familiar) Note that I am talking about small children, but I believe that this is a phenomen recognized by most child rearing books and guides, and by most pediatricians. Do you have children? Did then NEVER go through this kind of thing? Julie
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>You are on Vacation! Leave the job at home..no cell phone..maybe even >no laptop. You can always go to the cybercafes.
Some people travel for business and some manage to combine both. The most obvious couple I know who can manage almost every moment to be enjoyable are a chef and professional food writer. The both might want to take notes along the way. Lots of prople, surely a minority but still lots, do not copartmentalize their lives into work and play, but actually enjoy their vocations without need to get away. Anyway, travel and vacation are not synonymous. >Get a drip-dry hair >style. Guys,grow a beard. There,we’ve left the dryer and the shaver at >home and no one will know how you are supposed to look and you can stand >to look at a different you in the mirror for three weeks.
It may work for you and for lot’s of us, but some people want to look their best and travel to dine at the best restaurants, go to the opera, etc. They may be more comfortable wearing their best clothes and spending time grooming during the trip. >Don’t try to drive..enjoy the leisure of train travel.
This is an interesting suggestion and one I have the most trouble with. I have begun to detest driving. In my college days, I would take a 50 -100 mile drive to relax. Now I dislike getting into a car. Nevertheless, unless our trip is restricted to cities, a car is a major requisite on any trip. We have rented cars in Japan, which is something I wouldn’t recommend to most travelers. We’ve found that once out of the city, there’s no way we could see many of the things we want to see, nor do we have the patience to depend on matching our itinerary to the schedules of public transportation on the entire trip. Whenever I’ve trying to cover ground, I’ll attempt to fly or take the train, but many of our most memorable evenings have been spent in country inns rather inaccessible by public transportation. >Leave most of your things at >home..enjoy shopping here and there. Don’t set a castiron schedule,loaf >and schmooze. No jewelry..except your wedding rings..fewer things to >lose. Take a tiny or disposable camera, unless you dream of being Ansel >Adams. Learn some of the language..please and thank you, for starts.
I agree with the drift, but note my comments above. I do take a good 35 mm camera. At one point we began to rely on a small point and shoot camera, but were disappointed at the results. >Enjoy the difference..don’t need Coke, try Orangina..don’t crave >Macdooodooo, try a sandwich of the local cheese and sausage, ham, dried >beef.
In some ways this is almost contradictory to the suggestions first made. It’s often easier and more relaxing to get a Coke or eat at a McDo, they’re ubiquitous in many places and easier to find as well as easier to deal with for most travelers who just want to relax and enjoy the leisure of a vacation. However, I find the chance to enjoy local foods, one of the reasons to travel, so I agree with you, but possibly for other reasons. >Go in the off season,heavens, you might just get by with NO >reservations anywhere! Try a room with a shared bath for a night or >two..you might enjoy the economy.
While I agree about the joys of traveling in the off season, one should be aware that the season is the season both because that’s when most people are free to travel and often because that’s when a particular location has the most to offer. As for enjoying the economy, I might, but my wife might prefer the luxury. 
Life is a compromise at times. >Most of all, go with the >determination to have a happy time.
Absolutely no argument here. And if I sound argumentative or contentious in the rest of my reply, I don’t mean to. None of this is meant as a put down. I am sure your advice works for you and that other seasoned travelers know what works for them. I just want to present a balance and note that novice travelers have a choice and should learn their needs. A lot may depend on how much a trip is intended as a vacation and how much it’s intended as an adventure. From your message, I can see that for both of us, it’s really a combination, even if the emphasis is different. — <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe posted 21 June 2000
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You are on Vacation! Leave the job at home..no cell phone..maybe even no laptop. You can always go to the cybercafes.Get a drip-dry hair style. Guys,grow a beard. There,we’ve left the dryer and the shaver at home and no one will know how you are supposed to look and you can stand to look at a different you in the mirror for three weeks. Don’t try to drive..enjoy the leisure of train travel. Leave most of your things at home..enjoy shopping here and there. Don’t set a castiron schedule,loaf and schmooze. No jewelry..except your wedding rings..fewer things to lose. Take a tiny or disposable camera, unless you dream of being Ansel Adams. Learn some of the language..please and thank you, for starts. Enjoy the difference..don’t need Coke, try Orangina..don’t crave Macdooodooo, try a sandwich of the local cheese and sausage, ham, dried beef. Go in the off season,heavens, you might just get by with NO reservations anywhere! Try a room with a shared bath for a night or two..you might enjoy the economy. Most of all, go with the determination to have a happy time. glen black — Glen’s Multifarious Page http://sites.netscape.net/willgeewillgee/homepage
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You are on Vacation! Leave the job at home..no cell phone..maybe even > no laptop. You can always go to the cybercafes.Get a drip-dry hair > style. Guys,grow a beard. There,we’ve left the dryer and the shaver at > home and no one will know how you are supposed to look and you can stand > to look at a different you in the mirror for three weeks. Don’t try to > drive..enjoy the leisure of train travel. Leave most of your things at > home..enjoy shopping here and there. Don’t set a castiron schedule,loaf > and schmooze. No jewelry..except your wedding rings..fewer things to > lose. Take a tiny or disposable camera, unless you dream of being Ansel > Adams. Learn some of the language..please and thank you, for starts. > Enjoy the difference..don’t need Coke, try Orangina..don’t crave > Macdooodooo, try a sandwich of the local cheese and sausage, ham, dried > beef. Go in the off season,heavens, you might just get by with NO > reservations anywhere! Try a room with a shared bath for a night or > two..you might enjoy the economy. Most of all, go with the > determination to have a happy time. glen black > — > Glen’s Multifarious Page > http://sites.netscape.net/willgeewillgee/homepage
Well said! which is to say, I share many of your biases.
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>Try a room with a shared bath
It’s difficult to get more than one person into most baths. — Michael Forrest
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In general, I agree with the philosophy. But after a couple of days of not shaving, I find my whiskers scratchy and uncomfortable. So I shave. But not everyday. At the risk of starting this thread up again, I cannot understand why anyone would eat at McDonalds while on vacation–even on vacation in the US. But then again, I don’t really like McDonalds and I don’t really drink soft drinks (unless iced tea counts). Evidently, plenty of other people do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You are on Vacation! Leave the job at home..no cell phone..maybe even > no laptop. You can always go to the cybercafes.Get a drip-dry hair > style. Guys,grow a beard. There,we’ve left the dryer and the shaver at > home and no one will know how you are supposed to look and you can stand > to look at a different you in the mirror for three weeks. Don’t try to > drive..enjoy the leisure of train travel. Leave most of your things at > home..enjoy shopping here and there. Don’t set a castiron schedule,loaf > and schmooze. No jewelry..except your wedding rings..fewer things to > lose. Take a tiny or disposable camera, unless you dream of being Ansel > Adams. Learn some of the language..please and thank you, for starts. > Enjoy the difference..don’t need Coke, try Orangina..don’t crave > Macdooodooo, try a sandwich of the local cheese and sausage, ham, dried > beef. Go in the off season,heavens, you might just get by with NO > reservations anywhere! Try a room with a shared bath for a night or > two..you might enjoy the economy. Most of all, go with the > determination to have a happy time. glen black > — > Glen’s Multifarious Page > http://sites.netscape.net/willgeewillgee/homepage
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> At the risk of starting this thread up again, I cannot understand why > anyone would eat at McDonalds while on vacation–even on vacation in > the US. But then again, I don’t really like McDonalds and I don’t > really drink soft drinks (unless iced tea counts). Evidently, plenty > of other people do.
It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional variation and people could simply be curious. It is worth noting that some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts. — Guy Robinson www.legendary.freeserve.co.uk [all standard disclaimers apply] Before you buy.
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> It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional > variation and people could simply be curious. It is worth noting that > some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the > world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts.
I do have a hard time justifying McDOnald’s, but some reasons that epople might eat (upon occasion) at ubiquitous American-style chain restaurants include: 1. I ate at a Hard Rock Cafe in Cozumel one year in Mexico, because I desperately wanted fresh salad, or any raw vegetable. I;d been very good aobut not e eating them to avoid montezuma’s revenge. 2. Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, generally not being open to trying new foods. This does NOT mean that won’t when they are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. 3. The t-shirts. If you travelk with teens,t hose shirts are the coolest 4. Time. I ate at a Burger King in Amsterdam bone time becaused tickets for a wine and cheese tour of the canals in 40 minutes. My experience of Amsterdam, and all of Europe, is that they are gearted to more leisurely dining; which I generally prefer. But sometimes things just do not turn out right! Julie
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>2. Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >generally not being open to trying new foods. This does NOT mean that won’t >when they >are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of >good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar.
I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe. It’s tooa great extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is handled. Of course that’s IMHO. — <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe posted 21 June 2000
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>You are on Vacation! Leave the job at home..no cell phone..maybe even >no laptop. You can always go to the cybercafes.
Some people travel for business and some manage to combine both. The most obvious couple I know who can manage almost every moment to be enjoyable are a chef and professional food writer. The both might want to take notes along the way. Lots of prople, surely a minority but still lots, do not copartmentalize their lives into work and play, but actually enjoy their vocations without need to get away. Anyway, travel and vacation are not synonymous. >Get a drip-dry hair >style. Guys,grow a beard. There,we’ve left the dryer and the shaver at >home and no one will know how you are supposed to look and you can stand >to look at a different you in the mirror for three weeks.
It may work for you and for lot’s of us, but some people want to look their best and travel to dine at the best restaurants, go to the opera, etc. They may be more comfortable wearing their best clothes and spending time grooming during the trip. >Don’t try to drive..enjoy the leisure of train travel.
This is an interesting suggestion and one I have the most trouble with. I have begun to detest driving. In my college days, I would take a 50 -100 mile drive to relax. Now I dislike getting into a car. Nevertheless, unless our trip is restricted to cities, a car is a major requisite on any trip. We have rented cars in Japan, which is something I wouldn’t recommend to most travelers. We’ve found that once out of the city, there’s no way we could see many of the things we want to see, nor do we have the patience to depend on matching our itinerary to the schedules of public transportation on the entire trip. Whenever I’ve trying to cover ground, I’ll attempt to fly or take the train, but many of our most memorable evenings have been spent in country inns rather inaccessible by public transportation. >Leave most of your things at >home..enjoy shopping here and there. Don’t set a castiron schedule,loaf >and schmooze. No jewelry..except your wedding rings..fewer things to >lose. Take a tiny or disposable camera, unless you dream of being Ansel >Adams. Learn some of the language..please and thank you, for starts.
I agree with the drift, but note my comments above. I do take a good 35 mm camera. At one point we began to rely on a small point and shoot camera, but were disappointed at the results. >Enjoy the difference..don’t need Coke, try Orangina..don’t crave >Macdooodooo, try a sandwich of the local cheese and sausage, ham, dried >beef.
In some ways this is almost contradictory to the suggestions first made. It’s often easier and more relaxing to get a Coke or eat at a McDo, they’re ubiquitous in many places and easier to find as well as easier to deal with for most travelers who just want to relax and enjoy the leisure of a vacation. However, I find the chance to enjoy local foods, one of the reasons to travel, so I agree with you, but possibly for other reasons. >Go in the off season,heavens, you might just get by with NO >reservations anywhere! Try a room with a shared bath for a night or >two..you might enjoy the economy.
While I agree about the joys of traveling in the off season, one should be aware that the season is the season both because that’s when most people are free to travel and often because that’s when a particular location has the most to offer. As for enjoying the economy, I might, but my wife might prefer the luxury. Life is a compromise at times. >Most of all, go with the >determination to have a happy time.
Absolutely no argument here. And if I sound argumentative or contentious in the rest of my reply, I don’t mean to. None of this is meant as a put down. I am sure your advice works for you and that other seasoned travelers know what works for them. I just want to present a balance and note that novice travelers have a choice and should learn their needs. A lot may depend on how much a trip is intended as a vacation and how much it’s intended as an adventure. From your message, I can see that for both of us, it’s really a combination, even if the emphasis is different. — <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe posted 21 June 2000
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(snip) > 4. Time. I ate at a Burger King in Amsterdam bone time becaused tickets > for a wine and cheese tour of the canals in 40 minutes. My experience of > Amsterdam, and all of Europe, is that they are gearted to more leisurely > dining; which I generally prefer. But sometimes things just do not > turn out right! > Julie
In Amsterdam you could try a Febo – both faster (pop in the coins, open the little glass door, & there’s your kroket) & IMO tastier than Burger King.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->2. Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >generally not being open to trying new foods. This does NOT mean that won’t >when they >are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of >good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe. It’s tooa great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled. Of course that’s IMHO.
My granddaughter (age 4) will TRY anything, as long as she’s assured it’s "not too spicy", but won’t always plow ahead & make a meal of it; if we don’t want to have a hungry kid to deal with, it’s good to have something relatively familiar in reserve.
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>>2. Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >generally not being open to trying new foods. This does NOT mean that won’t >when they >are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of >good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe. It’s tooa great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled. Of course that’s IMHO.
I beg to differ. I have children who grew up to be extrordinarily wide raging in their tastes, including a son who, at 10, woudl eat sushi (yes, the kind with raw fish, not just california rolls), almost any ethnic food you could introduce him to, and loved trying new things. Still at 4 and 7, and other times in his development, h had a very limited list of what he would eat. Indeed there are times in development when a child needs the security of the familiar, and when much of the familiar is gone, i.e. when he or she is tra- velling, they will often refuse new foods. Now that my kids are mostly adults, (the youngest is 16_) they will try most anything, and they get the chance to eat a vgreat variety of food at home (as I enjoy ethnic and international cooking and dining) but whent hey were small children, they had their times when they were picky. When I travelled with them at those ages, we did occasionally stop at Burger Doodle or whatever, just to get a meal into them (and often got cereal for breakfst to help them start theday with soemthing familiar) Note that I am talking about small children, but I believe that this is a phenomen recognized by most child rearing books and guides, and by most pediatricians. Do you have children? Did then NEVER go through this kind of thing? Julie
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> (snip) > 4. Time. I ate at a Burger King in Amsterdam bone time becaused tickets > for a wine and cheese tour of the canals in 40 minutes. My experience of > Amsterdam, and all of Europe, is that they are gearted to more leisurely > dining; which I generally prefer. But sometimes things just do not > turn out right! > Julie > In Amsterdam you could try a Febo – both faster (pop in the coins, open the > little glass door, & there’s your kroket) & IMO tastier than Burger King.
Yes, but at the time I didn’t know that. It was our second night in Amsterdam and we’d gotten the tour tickets at the last minute, and BK was nearby. Julie
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>2. Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >>generally not being open to trying new foods. This does NOT mean that >>won’t >>when they >>are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >>Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot >>of >>good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe. It’s tooa > great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at > home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled. Of course that’s IMHO. >I beg to differ. I have children who grew up to be extrordinarily wide >raging >in their tastes, including a son who, at 10, woudl eat sushi (yes, the kind >with raw fish, not just california rolls), almost any ethnic food you could >introduce him to, and loved trying new things. Still at 4 and 7, and other >times in his development, h had a very limited list of what he would eat. >Indeed there are times in development when a child needs the security of the >familiar, and when much of the familiar is gone, i.e. when he or she is tra- >velling, they will often refuse new foods. Now that my kids are mostly >adults, >(the youngest is 16_) they will try most anything, and they get the chance >to >eat a vgreat variety of food at home (as I enjoy ethnic and international >cooking and dining) but whent hey were small children, they had their times >when they were picky. When I travelled with them at those ages, we did >occasionally stop at Burger Doodle or whatever, just to get a meal into >them (and often got cereal for breakfst to help them start theday with >soemthing familiar) >Note that I am talking about small children, but I believe that this is a >phenomen recognized by most child rearing books and guides, and by most >pediatricians. >Do you have children? Did then NEVER go through this kind of thing?
Last first. Yes, yes, but not to an extent that it modified our lives in any significant way. We never traveled abroad until she was about eleven, unless you count the Caribbean, but that was to see grandma, where she ate whatever grandma cooked or whatever we picked up at the beach stands. She’s in her late twenties and married to a French chef for whatever that’s worth. ;-) Although she referred to me as the food snob while she was in high school, her palate is far more discriminating than mine now. We may disagree, but note that I merely said this is less universal than some people believe and, IMHO, to a great extent encouraged by parental reaction. We generally followed our pediatrician’s advice that it’s unlkely for a child to starve if there’s food around. She ate what we ate at home or waited until we served something she liked. We never insisted she eat anything, although we may have insisted she try some things. To be fair, as soon as she could speak she was allowed a say in what was served and we’d prepare her favorite things several times a week. Yes, it helps to occasionally give in and all children have their picky periods, but I’m not at all convinced that parental reaction doesn’t lengthen those periods far more often than not. I took my daughter to a Burger King once. (kids get all sort of experiences from other kids and their families – I think that’s healthy) Too many American’s, and this is not in anyway directed at you, don’t sit down together at dinner as a family and too many Americans don’t treat dinner as an exciting event in the day. It’s a chore to shop, it’s a chore to cook and soon enough it’s a chore to eat. Put that on top of a historical puritanism that discourged enjoyment of temporal life anyway and lots of people still don’t really enjoy meals the way they do, or did, in France, Italy or Spain. It’s easier to use food as a tool in asserting yourself when it’s not an important joy in your life. It’s far easier to see it as a comfort when you can associate with one kind of food more than another. For me it was easier tollow my daughter to go to a fancy restaurant in jeans that to be unable to go to the restaurant. I’m perfectly aware that most people would give up on the food if their child would dress properly. Once again it’s not so much a value judgement than it is a recognition that we make our own problems all too often. To be sure one child is far less than half as hard to raise than two and you may have more. It’s a lot easier to focus on one stage at a time. Yes, kids go through stages, but no it shouldn’t disrupt your life, and I don’t think an occasionally stop at Burger Doodle, here or abroad, is necessarily a major disruption either. I’m so far off topic and irrelevant to the group, so I’ll stop. — <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe posted 21 June 2000
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>My granddaughter (age 4) will TRY anything, as long as she’s assured it’s >"not >too spicy", but won’t always plow ahead & make a meal of it; if we don’t >want to >have a hungry kid to deal with, it’s good to have something relatively >familiar >in reserve.
I’ll bet that if you provide enough choices she’ll find something she’ll eat. The mere fact that there are lots of choices will also enable her to convince herself she’s made the choice and not you. But yes, there are usually foods that are safer than others and parents are generally aware of the parameters within which they can work. I also recall my daughter could say "no" at four for reasons of her own. Had she managed to get us to feed her a diet of only one thing, she’d find the day to say no to that if only for sport. It’s a four year old thing, a stage if you will and a difficult one for me if only because our daughter sensed how much I was amazed by her determination. ;-) — <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe posted 21 June 2000
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>To be sure one child is far less than half as hard to raise than two and you >may have more. It’s a lot easier to focus on one stage at a time.
I have heard the opposite said, that with several they largely raise each other. We only had two and no control to compare with – so very unscientific. My wife was one of three, the eldest of them, covering quite an age range. There are certainly photos of her doing some of the raising of younger brother. He turned out very useful later by becoming a doctor. — Michael Forrest
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>>To be sure one child is far less than half as hard to raise than two and >you >may have more. It’s a lot easier to focus on one stage at a time. >I have heard the opposite said, that with several they largely raise >each other.
You probably have a good point, but only after a certain number. Like other things in life, it’s the getting there that will kill you. — <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe posted 21 June 2000
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but as he said you might really like it :)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Try a room with a shared bath > It’s difficult to get more than one person into most baths. > — > Michael Forrest
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I haven’t eaten at McD’s while in Europe (need to save room for the gelato and wine), but let’s not forget they have GREAT public bathrooms! Iced tea? I live on the stuff, unsweetened, and have withdrawal in Europe- no ice – only that canned sweetened stuff. I end up substituting water and wine. In London, after 4 weeks in Europe, I resorted to ordering (in a Burger King) a hot tea, and 2 cups of ice. Wonderful……. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >At the risk of starting this thread up again, I cannot understand why >anyone would eat at McDonalds while on vacation–even on vacation in the >US. But then again, I don’t really like McDonalds and I don’t really >drink soft drinks (unless iced tea counts). Evidently, plenty of other >people do.
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Well, being a product of the Great Depression" and a home where you ate what was served, or you didn’t eat until the next meal, I learned early not to be "picky" about my food. (That doesn’t mean I’m not particular about what I prepare for myself or order in a restaurant, but if it’s fit to eat, I CAN eat it – whether or not I happen to like it.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->2. Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >generally not being open to trying new foods. This does NOT mean that won’t >when they >are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. >Even if you are pushing them to try new things, it does the family a lot of >good to occasionally give in, and let them eat something familiar. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe. It’s tooa great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled. Of course that’s IMHO. > — > <www.worldtable.com> Food/Wine/Travel > - > new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe > posted 21 June 2000
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> It may work for you and for lot’s of us, but some people want to look their > best and travel to dine at the best restaurants, go to the opera, etc. They > may be more comfortable wearing their best clothes and spending time > grooming during the trip.
Yeah, you got it! (I AM taking all the advice to "pack light" – but it’s the "sporty" wardrobe, rather than the dressy one, that’s going to stay home!)
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Never having raised a child, of course I have very definite ideas on the subject (;->). However, I think parents worry too much about "dealing with a hungry kid" – if they’re REALLY hungry, they’ll eat whatever they’re given – or make do with bread or something equally familiar – all but the most exotic meals include something of that nature. And if they are normally well fed, missing a meal or two will do them no lasting harm, just make them appreciate the next one more! (It works with cats, too, and there ain’t NOTHING as fussy as a well fed cat – even when they started life as strays, it’s suprising how quickly they become "finicky" when they learn there’s always food available!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My granddaughter (age 4) will TRY anything, as long as she’s assured it’s "not > too spicy", but won’t always plow ahead & make a meal of it; if we don’t want to > have a hungry kid to deal with, it’s good to have something relatively familiar > in reserve.
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[ Robert Buxbaum didn't say this, but I don't know who did:] >>2. Parents travelling with children; Children are notorioupicky eaters, >>generally not being open to trying new foods. This does NOT mean that won’t >>when they >>are kids, all children go through epriods when anything strange is scary. > I don’t think this is as universal as some people believe. It’s tooa great > extent a matter of how they are brought up and how food is presented at home > as well as how whatever pickiness that may be related to development is > handled. Of course that’s IMHO.
[ I trimmed a lot of this ] > I beg to differ. I have children who grew up to be extrordinarily wide raging > in their tastes …. Still at 4 and 7, and other > times in his development, h had a very limited list of what he would eat.
… Now that my kids are mostly adults, > … they will try most anything… but whent hey were small children, they had their times > when they were picky. When I travelled with them at those ages, we did > occasionally stop at Burger Doodle or whatever, just to get a meal into > them (and often got cereal for breakfst to help them start theday with > soemthing familiar) > Do you have children? Did then NEVER go through this kind of thing?
I have two children, now adults, and I had great success by not getting involved in any way with their food likes and dislikes. I prepared meals, set them in front of them and neither encouraged them to try anything nor insisted that they eat at all. From the time they could pick up a piece of food and stuff it in their mouths, I allowed them to feed themselves and cleaned up the mess afterwards. I never bought "baby food", only made sure that the food I placed in front of them was mashed or otherwise safe for toothless babies. I didn’t buy cookies or any other processed foods, however. I had very little money when my children were small and I saved on the grocery bill by making everything, from cereal to bread, from scratch. (For example, I learned that I could grind ordinary rice in my coffee grinder to make a very inexpensive hot cereal for our breakfasts, instead of buying "Cream of Rice".) My children never went through any fussy stages; or if they did, I didn’t notice. I think such stages are attempts to exercise a little parental control and if they think Mom doesn’t really care what they eat or don’t eat, it doesn’t occur to them that this will work. As adults, my children enjoy a wide range of foods. There was a long period when one of them disliked tomatoes, but this is just a matter of taste, not fussiness. I notice that she now eats them. Barbara
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> At the risk of starting this thread up again, I cannot understand why > anyone would eat at McDonalds while on vacation–even on vacation in > the US. But then again, I don’t really like McDonalds and I don’t > really drink soft drinks (unless iced tea counts). Evidently, plenty > of other people do. > It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional > variation and people could simply be curious. It is worth noting that > some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the > world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts.
Unless you’re a unix sysadmin then a hardrock cafe is a good chance to obtain a much needed addition to your wardrobe. — Jeroen Wijnands http://www.xs4all.nl/~wijnands "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit" Before you buy.
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> It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional > variation and people could simply be curious. It is worth noting that > some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the > world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts.
You hit the nail right on the head, as far as I’m concerned. I love to travel, both domestic (USA) and in Europe.When I am in Europe, I eat at McDonalds once or twice for two reasons. First, I sometimes get a bit homesick, and I am a McDonalds fan. Second, I like to see how European McDonalds differ from what I am used to at home in the Philadelphia area. One or two lunches at a McDonalds toward the end of a trip is plenty for me.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It might be worthwhile noting that McDonalds does have the odd regional > variation and people could simply be curious. It is worth noting that > some people can’t live without visiting every Hard Rock Cafe in the > world, even if it is just to buy those ubiquitous t-shirts. > You hit the nail right on the head, as far as I’m concerned. I love to > travel, > both domestic (USA) and in Europe.When I am in Europe, I eat at McDonalds > once or twice for two reasons. First, I sometimes get a bit homesick, > and I > am a McDonalds fan. Second, I like to see how European McDonalds differ > from what I am used to at home in the Philadelphia area. One or two > lunches > at a McDonalds toward the end of a trip is plenty for me.
I was making fun of friends who mentioned eating at McDonalds. They replied that one feature of eating at McDonalds is that you can find a restroom which is both clean and free. Dick
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> Does this happen to everyone? Am I just a rareity?
Let’s see: The jeweler never ordered my rings so I had to go shopping for new ones 2 days before the wedding. The limo company accidentally overbooked and canceled our limo 1 day before the wedding. And who knows what else could go wrong with 1 day left. It will all work out, I promise Linda
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> Does this happen to everyone? Am I just a rareity?
If it makes you feel any better, here’s a list of the things that went wrong before our wedding: (1) The original date was May 17, 1999. My MOH and only attendant called me in October and told me she was pregnant and her due date was – May 17th. We moved the wedding back 6 months. (2) We had to relocate from a plantation home to my in-laws back yard due to money concerns. (3) The jewelry store where we ordered my wedding ring ordered the wrong size – we found out the day of the wedding. Kevin spent 3 hours the morning of our wedding day trying to find me a ring so I wouldn’t have to be married with a "loaner". (4) The seafood place delivered 30 pounds of boiled shrimp with the heads and shells on. 10 of our family and friends spent a few hours shelling shrimp on the morning of our wedding. (5) My MOH had just put up the trellis and decorated it with flowers when the heavens opened up and poured rain. 4 of the guys stood in the pouring rain with a blue tarp over the trellis to protect it. (6) Hurricane Georges took the roof off of our honeymoon B&B 3 days before our wedding. We punted! <g> (7) We chose October because it would be cooler – it was 96 degrees and humid!!!!! (8) Because we didn’t think thru it clearly, my husbands family was busy putting together the food and we didn’t get many formal photographs of them. Despite all of this, the wedding went off beautifully and friends and family still tell us what a great time they had. Hang in there and realize (as Wende said) everything will be fine. Karen Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
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> Anyway, is there some official line where if it’s a worse tragedy, the > wedding is canceled, but if it’s less severe, the Show Must Go On? My > thinking is that if a close family member died, naturally you’d cancel > the wedding, and depending on your situation, either reschedule or have > a quiet chapel or courthouse wedding, to be followed by a reception at > the end of an appropriate mourning period.
The only line drawn is where you and your family wish to draw it. And how you’re able to handle it. This happened at a distant relative’s wedding – the brother of the bride was killed in a car accident on his way to the rehersal dinner the night before the scheduled wedding. Note that we have a large and close family, so "small wedding" is not in the vocabulary, but of course everyone would have understood had they cancelled – and been grieving themselves. Note, also, however, that we’re Catholic, and in my family (this may be due to a combination of being RC and being Mexican), while one grieves over the loss of a loved one, funerals are essentially celebrations of life – the life the person lived. It is not considered morbid or taboo to talk about someone close who has died, it’s not considered wrong to share stories of that person, or to laugh and rejoice in the life they lived. I know that concept shocks and offends many people, but it is the standard in my family (both sides, the American/German side included) and I’m very glad it is that way. So, after much agonising by the HC and the family, they decided to have the wedding as planned. NOT because "the show must go on", but because they decided that this is what their brother would have wanted – and in many ways he was "there" in spirit. To be honest, I think they were all in a state of shock and his death didn’t really hit them til a few days later. It was hard, and every one knew what had happened. The focus for that day was to celebrate the marriage of the HC, and more than ever to unite the families. While it *was* a difficult day for all involved, many said they were glad they went ahead with the wedding because it gave them a chance to really bond together, to have something happy amidst the sad and tragic. To be with family who also loved and mourned the bride’s brother was very important that day. To be honest, I’m not sure I’d have the strength to go through with it myself. Another cousin (other side of my family) lost her mom to cancer not long before their wedding (I think it was a month or two). Because she had been sick for a couple of years, they were prepared for it – as much as one can be. They also went ahead with the wedding as scheduled. Again, it was hard, but not any harder than it would have been 4 months later, or a year later. Her mom’s absence would still have been felt. They would have still each been grieving for her loss in their own ways. My brother died the night of my sister’s wedding – after the wedding, and we didn’t learn of it til the next morning. We were all in shock for a few days at least, some of us for longer. Honestly, it didn’t hit me until a month or two later. And it hit me the hardest *5* years later at my other brother’s wedding. It was still a very happy event for us all (the wedding), but in the 5 years previous, I don’t think I had felt his death so acutely as I did then. (It was just the 10th anniversary of his death on June 26, and my sister’s 10th wedding anniversary). The roasary and funeral for him was in many ways not a lot different from the wedding (it was held the following Saturday). All the family gathered togethered, and while we mourned, we celebrated his life with dancing, singing, sharing stories, sharing life with the family which means so much. Grief and tragedy strike people in different ways. For some, it doesn’t even seem real for a while. When my brother died, I handled a lot of the details of his "estate" (property, banks, life insurance, etc) because I was one of the few amongst my immediate family for whom it really hadn’t hit. Thankfully, they appreciated that rather than thinking me unfeeling, because they knew it would affect all of us in our own way and our own time. While it may seem odd – or even cold – to so much as mention a deceased person during a happy event, in my family that is not the case. Mentioning them is a way of making their presence felt. I’m glad my religious tradition accepts and supports my family’s manner of dealing with it. I know my cousin associates her wedding anniversary with the anniversary of her brother’s death, as does my sister and BIL. That’s not easy, but my sister says they celebrate his life on that day, as well as their marriage. So, IMO, there’s no official line for everyone – it depends on the people involved, and perhaps the dictates of one’s religious tradition. C.
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> Well, my big day is in eight days.
I just wanted to say congratulations! Relax and enjoy. I know of several brides who had MAJOR things happen to them (grape Kool-aid all over her dress) and the weddings were perfect. If she can make it through Grape Kool-aid then we can make it through anything! Good luck!!! Nikki Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
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> Anyway, is there some official line where if it’s a worse tragedy, the > wedding is canceled, but if it’s less severe, the Show Must Go On? My > thinking is that if a close family member died, naturally you’d cancel > the wedding, and depending on your situation, either reschedule or have > a quiet chapel or courthouse wedding, to be followed by a reception at > the end of an appropriate mourning period. > But what if a family member or member of the wedding party is > hospitalized, for example? Given the health histories of some of our > key players, it’s not impossible.
That’s a tough issue. In the old days, you cancelled for any sort of death or *serious* illness in the immediate family — but in the old days, most weddings were much more modest and had far fewer out-of-town guests than today. They were easier to reschedule. You’ve grasped the nub of the thing, which is that you can’t *just* hold a joyous party as if nothing had happened at all. People go both ways on anything short of the death of a parent. When you look at the emotional investment that other elements of the family, unaffected by the hypothetical disaster, have in the wedding, it’s hard to say that cancelling or not cancelling is *always* the right thing to do. If you feel strongly that you just cannot have a wedding under those circumstances, then *do* cancel the festive parts and get married quietly, as you’ll hate yourself if you do anything else. But if the whole family was urging you to go ahead — with everyone understanding that things will be a bit subdued — I think most people would understand. That’s the impression I’ve had from other weddings I’ve heard about that have taken place despite family tragedies. Wende
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m being a little morbid here, but what do you do if something tragic > happens just before your wedding? The only case I know of personally > was my MOH’s wedding, in which the pastor’s teenage son died in a car > accident about 10 days before the wedding. It happened that our church > had an elder who’s also an ordained minister, so he stepped in and did > the wedding instead. > Anyway, is there some official line where if it’s a worse tragedy, the > wedding is canceled, but if it’s less severe, the Show Must Go On? My > thinking is that if a close family member died, naturally you’d cancel > the wedding, and depending on your situation, either reschedule or have > a quiet chapel or courthouse wedding, to be followed by a reception at > the end of an appropriate mourning period.
I actually know a recent bride whose mother died VERY unexpectedly 4 days before the wedding. Because of religious and family customs, a wedding could not take place during the 3 months following the funeral, so the couple was married in a small, quick ceremony the day after her mother’s death (before the funeral). The groom’s family was en route (to what they still believed was a wedding) and did not witness the ceremony. Obviously, when they did arrive, they were shocked by the whole thing. Because of the very short notice, there was no way out of the contracts with the reception site, the caterer, or the florist. The couple ended up having a scaled down version of their reception, at the time and place it had originally been planned, the reasoning being that the bride’s mother had put so much time and effort into planning the perfect reception, that it would be a final insult to her memory to cancel it altogether (this was 2 days after the funeral). There was no dancing, but the bride wore her dress (which she had not worn for the ceremony) and the photographer was there and the whole nine yards. They ate the prime rib and cut the cake and everything. This is an extreme example, but it does point to the fact that circumstances will vary from person to person, family to family. Sorry this post is so depressing….the worst that happened to us was a flat tire the morning before the wedding. We borrowed my mom’s car to finish our errands and my sport of a brother took ours to get it fixed!
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> Any sort of big deadline project seems to attract the forces of chaos or > something.
I’m being a little morbid here, but what do you do if something tragic happens just before your wedding? The only case I know of personally was my MOH’s wedding, in which the pastor’s teenage son died in a car accident about 10 days before the wedding. It happened that our church had an elder who’s also an ordained minister, so he stepped in and did the wedding instead. Anyway, is there some official line where if it’s a worse tragedy, the wedding is canceled, but if it’s less severe, the Show Must Go On? My thinking is that if a close family member died, naturally you’d cancel the wedding, and depending on your situation, either reschedule or have a quiet chapel or courthouse wedding, to be followed by a reception at the end of an appropriate mourning period. But what if a family member or member of the wedding party is hospitalized, for example? Given the health histories of some of our key players, it’s not impossible. –Susan (and Dylan) 9/4/99 — Looking for a good read? Check out the personalized reading recommender at http://www.alexlit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
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>Any sort of big deadline project seems to attract the forces of chaos or >something. >Wende
Well said ! 2 days before our wedding our hot water heater blew releasing water all over my basement darkroom. The next day the main serpentine belt on our relatively new van shredded to pieces at 3:PM. Try getting that fixed ! And the day of…welll…. 1) My brother showed up late and didn’t have his tux. Hadn’t even gone to get fitted even though I had given his sizes to the tux rental shop. Took him over ASAP in my van (now running well) through the crosstown traffic. Get back with 20 minutes to spare only to hear him say "Uh oh." "What oh ?" I ask. I forgot my shirt and studs. That 20 minute margin is now a 20 minute deficit so we scoot up the road breaking the speed limit 2X as we had some 30 miles to go to get to the church. 2) At the same time my wife-to-be is getting sewn into her gown as the zipper had broken ! From bottom to high collar neck. One stitch at a time. So while I was late and not in time to meet some of the guest, she was a half hour just getting stitched in ! Else : weather was fabulous, catering delicious, limos wonderful and the DJ still gets my referrals and hardiest recommendations. Regards, John S. Douglas Spectrum Photographic Inc Photographer http://www.spectrumphoto.com Darkroom processing times, formulas, and facts
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> >Goodness, yes, those would be bumps in the road! Possibly even sizable >potholes. > Does this happen to everyone? Am I just a rarity?
Different things happen but yeah, stuff does happen to most Happy Couples right before the wedding. Right before my BIL’s wedding, his best man got pneumonia, and one of BIL’s sisters fell, hit her head, gave herself a concussion, and ended up in the hospital with amnesia (it was a bit more complicated even than that, really). The best man recovered in time to walk down the aisle, and the sister managed to smile at everyone convincingly (although I’m pretty sure she had no idea who I was), and the wedding went fine — accept for the bit where the priest accidentally slammed a door open into one of the flower girls’ heads right before the processional. You get the idea. Our wedding was actually pretty peaceful. Phil’s relatively new, still under warranty, car experienced a major electrical failure while we were going out for breakfast the morning of the wedding, so we had to walk six blocks to the nearest bus stop in a pouring rain to go get my car. Fortunately, that was when I had short hair, which I had *no* plans for having "done," and I’d decided not to put on my make-up before breakfast, so all this event did was cut into our time for decorating the hall. Any sort of big deadline project seems to attract the forces of chaos or something. Wende
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>Goodness, yes, those would be bumps in the road! Possibly even sizable >potholes.
Does this happen to everyone? Am I just a rareity?
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Well, my big day is in eight days. So far things are going all right. I wish I could rave about how well things are going, but we ran into a few bumps along the way. My florist went under, my photographer’s father was killed in an earthquake, my best man’s wife just found out she has breast cancer. Things are a little shaky to say the least and I can’t wait for this day before anything else freaky happens!
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> Well, my big day is in eight days. So far things are going all right. I wish I > could rave about how well things are going, but we ran into a few bumps along > the way. My florist went under, my photographer’s father was killed in an > earthquake, my best man’s wife just found out she has breast cancer. Things are > a little shaky to say the least and I can’t wait for this day before anything > else freaky happens!
Goodness, yes, those would be bumps in the road! Possibly even sizable potholes. There’s a schtick from _Shakespare in Love_ that is not irrelevant to weddings… First speaker: "We can’t go on! We don’t have [fill in the blank]." Second speaker: "Don’t worry! It will all work out." First speaker: "It can’t possibly–" Second speaker: "It always does." First speaker: "But how?" Second speaker: "That’s a mystery." Not to trivialize all the bad news for the people around you, but these disasters rarely get in the way of having a rather good wedding. It works out. No one knows how, but it does. Wende
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Servus Patrick! Nice that you
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If you have time, here is a fool-proof way to get nails to grow: Try 2 coats of L’Oreal "Mega Hard with Kevlar." It looks white in the bottle but gives nails a healthy pinkish color. Then cover all that with one coat of Sally Hansen "Hard as Nails". It’ll strengthen your nails and make them look decent while they’re growing out. Also, it dries in about two seconds, so by the time you’re finishing the pinkie of one hand, you can start the second coat of your first. Taken from a reformed nail-biter (my parents thought I was a lost cause) and a miserable victim of the post-acrylic thin-nail syndrome!! =) Maura
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Simpler solution than those three layers……. Invest in Nailtiques no.2 slap on one coat a day, with or without polish! Dries fast! no second (or third) coat. I actually get compliments on my nails now, but its been a long haul. I swear by this stuff, my nails were significantly different within three weeks! To really keep them looking healthy invest in a small bottle of cuticle oil, carry it with you and slap it on whenever you think about it! Good cuticle oil will absorb in without messy rubbing! Laurel (Hands recovering from working at Starbucks for five years, resulting in contact dermatitis! YUCK!) FWIW….my sister swears by Sally Hansen’s "Hard as Nails" also, so whatever works for you!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->did you like your acrylic nails? >Can you choose the length of them? >I want to get acrylic nails but I have never gotten them and I have no nails, I >tried growing them out the got barely past the ends of my fingertips and then >started breaking. >I would like to get small short acrylic nails so that I can still type and use >utensils >Charissa > Look, in this case there is something to be said for "everyone doing it" It > is classy, and it is timeless. You don’t want people to notice your > fingernails on your wedding day, you want them to notice you, as a whole > picture! > As far as Blue goes, I had acrylics with a french manicure on my fingers, > and a fabulous frosty blue on my toes. Since we were in the caribbean for > the honeymoon, the blue on the toes was really fun!!! > Go easy on each other! > Good Luck and Congratulations to all!
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did you like your acrylic nails? Can you choose the length of them? I want to get acrylic nails but I have never gotten them and I have no nails, I tried growing them out the got barely past the ends of my fingertips and then started breaking. I would like to get small short acrylic nails so that I can still type and use utensils Charissa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Look, in this case there is something to be said for "everyone doing it" It > is classy, and it is timeless. You don’t want people to notice your > fingernails on your wedding day, you want them to notice you, as a whole > picture! > As far as Blue goes, I had acrylics with a french manicure on my fingers, > and a fabulous frosty blue on my toes. Since we were in the caribbean for > the honeymoon, the blue on the toes was really fun!!! > Go easy on each other! > Good Luck and Congratulations to all!
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Look, in this case there is something to be said for "everyone doing it" It is classy, and it is timeless. You don’t want people to notice your fingernails on your wedding day, you want them to notice you, as a whole picture! As far as Blue goes, I had acrylics with a french manicure on my fingers, and a fabulous frosty blue on my toes. Since we were in the caribbean for the honeymoon, the blue on the toes was really fun!!! Go easy on each other! Good Luck and Congratulations to all!
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Only consider getting fakes if you want your nails to look bad and be frail for about a year afterwards. I did it for prom, and I decided NOT to do it for my wedding. I tried really hard to grow out my nails for my wedding (and I was successful) My mom got fake ones for my wedding (2 years ago), and her nails are still very weak from them. I would recommend just getting a manicure. I got mine done not French, but American manicure. It was basically like a French manicure, but the tips were not as white (they were more natural looking). Tell them you want a natural look. If your nails don’t look really good, don’t draw attention to them with the white tips. They can do it a few different ways. Ask them to do a few on your nails, and then you can choose what you like best. Good Luck with everything!! Kelli – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Good morning, to all, > First off, 4 days to go – I can’t believe it is almost here. I must admit > that it hasn’t hit me yet – but I am so busy with other things at work, and > in my personal life apart from the wedding, that I haven’t had time to > obsess about it yet. I was watching Caroline in the City on Monday night and > she was getting married. As I was watching, I couldn’t believe that that > would be me in a few days. > Anyway, back to the subject of my post – I am going to get my nails done > tonight and I am just wondering what a lot of the other women on the > newsgroup have done (or are planning to do) with their nails. Do many of you > go to route of a French manicure, or what kind of shades are being used? > I am a computer programmer, so my nails are really ratty to begin with – > should I consider fakes? > Thanks in advance, any help and suggestion is greatly appreciated. > Jennifer
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>> As I was watching, I couldn’t believe that that > would be me in a few days. >I hope what happened to her fiance won’t happen to yours!
oooh what? what?! I know its sort of "off topic" but WHAT HAPPENED?! I didnt see it… please, anyone!? -Amy (to Eric 4/8/00) "Our deepest fears are like dragons guarding our deepest treasures." - Rilke Please remove "NOSPAM" from email address to email. Thank you.
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i’ve had acrylic tips for almost 2 years now… basically because my natural nails are so thin and brittle that i can’t grow them out. they always break and peel and crack… never mind the fact that if they DO manage to get past my fingertip, they’re razor sharp and i’ll slice anything or anyone that comes near me. since you only have a few days to go, i wouldn’t suggest getting acrylic tips of any length… your fingers will be a little achy and they’ll feel heavy for the first week or so. just get them done by a manicurist. as far as polish goes, i don’t plan to do the french manicure thing. first off, it’s what EVERYBODY seems to do around here (i got a french manicure recently, and while my fiance and i were in a local jewelry store looking at wedding rings, the woman waiting on us asked us how long ago our wedding had been… based solely on the color of my nails). i’m either going to go with the deep rose i normally wear, or go with a light peach… although i have toyed with the idea of doing them in a dark electric blue for my "something blue". jen (& jeff) 9/19/99 red meat isn’t bad for you… fuzzy blue-green meat is bad for you.
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> As I was watching, I couldn’t believe that that > would be me in a few days.
I hope what happened to her fiance won’t happen to yours! > Anyway, back to the subject of my post – I am going to get my nails done > tonight and I am just wondering what a lot of the other women on the > newsgroup have done (or are planning to do) with their nails. Do many of you > go to route of a French manicure, or what kind of shades are being used? > I am a computer programmer, so my nails are really ratty to begin with – > should I consider fakes?
I am a programmer too, and always keep my nails cut short and unpolished. Right now (a few weeks ahead) I’ve started letting them grow a little and filing them to a decent shape. Two weeks ahead I’m going to get a French manicure to see if I like it. Provided I do, I’ll get another manicure and a pedicure a couple of days before the wedding. I would not recommend going with fakes if you’ve never had them before. I understand they take some getting used to, and if one falls off, it is a much bigger emergency than just breaking a nail. — Katherine Teague Nortel Networks
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this might sound silly..but i’ve never had my nails manicured b4…so i want to know what is a french manicure…i always buff and polish my nails myself…and also…can i go to the manicurist (if that’s what u call them)….and get my nails manicured without applying any nail colour?…silly but please answer…
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>this might sound silly..but i’ve never had my nails manicured b4…so i >want to know what is a french manicure…i always buff and polish my nails >myself…and also…can i go to the manicurist (if that’s what u call >them)….and get my nails manicured without applying any nail >colour?…silly but please answer…
Not a silly question at all. A French manicure is when they put a flesh tone on the larger part of the nail, and a lighter, white tone on the tips. You can certainly go to a manicurist and get only a clear nail polish. They should be able to do whatever you want. Good luck! Star (and Emmett May 16, 1999. 18 days and counting)
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I’m considering an acrylic overlay or something along those lines – probably with a taupe French manicure (as opposed to the pink that is often used). I too have crummy nails – weak and breakable usually. ~Krista
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Jennifer, I wouldn’t go with fakes (acrylics or silks or whatever) if you’re not used to them. Even if you get short, short ones, it’s DIFFERENT and you’ll have a hard time with manual dexterity for a few days until you get used to them. Also, (this varies from person to person) fakes *can* damage your real nails because of the filing and chemicals – even if you only get them once. I have regular manicures done – just a plain manicure w/ a coat of light polish so that it’s somewhat natural looking. I don’t like the way they do French manicures here – to me they look very fake – so I don’t get those. I just had my regular manicure done for my wedding with a slightly brighter shade of polish. Karen — Karen Simmons, Photographer The DK Gallery http://www.thedkgallery.com
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Good morning, to all, First off, 4 days to go – I can’t believe it is almost here. I must admit that it hasn’t hit me yet – but I am so busy with other things at work, and in my personal life apart from the wedding, that I haven’t had time to obsess about it yet. I was watching Caroline in the City on Monday night and she was getting married. As I was watching, I couldn’t believe that that would be me in a few days. Anyway, back to the subject of my post – I am going to get my nails done tonight and I am just wondering what a lot of the other women on the newsgroup have done (or are planning to do) with their nails. Do many of you go to route of a French manicure, or what kind of shades are being used? I am a computer programmer, so my nails are really ratty to begin with – should I consider fakes? Thanks in advance, any help and suggestion is greatly appreciated. Jennifer
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Question:
> How many women are planning on getting a wedding gift for your > fiance? What are you planning on giving him? Are you keeping > it a secret? When are you giving it to him?
Ok, so tell me if this is "corney". When I was younger my parents made soem of these for people. I am Giving/ making my fiance an "Album of Love". Here is how it works. You mail out a letter or note to all the people on his sides guest list. Family and friends. Ask them to send you back something like a card or a note with a funny story about him, good wishes or a funny picture. Just something from the heart about a moment you shared…etc….etc…. Paste this into a scrapbook and I think it is a wonderfully special thing for him to read through. This is the best I can come with. My fiance is the type of guy who has everything and I could not think of a thing to buy him. Besides after the wedding I am going to make him a "wedding Mezuzah". (I am a jeweler and I make Mezuzahs that you can enclose the crushed glass from your wedding in to be saved forever). But I guess that is kind of a gift for both of us. If anyone desides to do their own album of love you can choose to enclose a large self address stamped envelope in with your letter you might get more responses if you make it easier for soem people and also don’t forget to mention a "please return by date" You are going to need time to put it together. What do you think? Wendy
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So, last night I’m trying to really subtly ask Aaron about this CD-Recordable drive I want to get him, masking it in "I think your mom was hinting about this when we were over there last month." His reply, "Oh, that would be cool, but there’s no way she’d get me the right thing…there’s so many kinds." Since I want the gift to be a surpise, there’s no way to get this info out of him. Next idea, which is way too extravagant anyway….his Mac at home just died….it works, but is reallllllllllllllllllly slow and will do not much more than open his email. He really needs a new one. I told him to email me the specs on what he needs so I can "Keep my eyes open at school for people selling them." Is this too much? I don’t expect him to get me anything NEARLY that expensive (actually, I’ve been hinting to him to do something like get a very special trophy of mine repaired or make me a CD compilation of musicals I’ve been in). I don’t want him to feel like he didn’t do enough. Thoughts? Jodi and Aaron June 20, 1998 http://www.disario.com/wedding
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>Well, I was one of the brides who skipped this "tradition."
My list of reasons were pretty much identical to Karen’s, so we also skipped the pre-wedding gifts. Our alternative was to pick out something nice for "our new home" while we were on our honeymoon. In our case, a nice print by a regional artist in a koa frame became our first family heirloom for the one-day kids to argue over. >Do this is this is really important to you, but for anyone else who >isn’t…. you’re not alone!
Agreed! If there is some great idea you have, this can be a charming idea. If your resources — financial, emotional, or available time — have you seeing this as "something else I have to do" … skip it. You’ll have each other; after that gift, nothing else really compares. — Josie
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> > > How many women are planning on getting a wedding gift for your > > fiance? What are you planning on giving him? Are you keeping > > it a secret? When are you giving it to him?
I always thought that each others gift was the wedding ring. However I think it’s a nice idea getting the groom something if you’ve got enough money left over. I’m not sure what I’m going to do about this though – maybe by him a pair of socks to wear on our wedding day or something like that.
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> > > How many women are planning on getting a wedding gift for your > > fiance? What are you planning on giving him? Are you keeping > > it a secret? When are you giving it to him? > Well, I was one of the brides who skipped this "tradition."
The other day, after reading the beginning of a thread on this topic, I looked over at Phil and said, "We’re paying for our entire wedding and furnishing a house together. We’re surrounded by tokens of each other’s esteem. Could we please skip the stuff about special wedding day gifts for each other?" He replied, "I didn’t know there was any such tradition." The moral is: If you’re planning for a sentimental wedding-day exchange of special gifts, you might want to make sure the groom is on board. Wende
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> > How many women are planning on getting a wedding gift for your > fiance? What are you planning on giving him? Are you keeping > it a secret? When are you giving it to him?
Well, I was one of the brides who skipped this "tradition." I figured I didn’t need the extra stress of picking out that one perfect gift, and neither did he. Also, we got married close to Christmas so I had already bought other gifts for the holidays. And last but not least, we were enjoying spending our money on other things, like the honeymoon! Do this is this is really important to you, but for anyone else who isn’t…. you’re not alone! — KZ * * I have a wedding page with a collection of ideas for small weddings, * theme weddings, and destination weddings : * * http://www.umich.edu/~kzaruba/wedding.html *
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> How many women are planning on getting a wedding gift for your > fiance? What are you planning on giving him? Are you keeping > it a secret? When are you giving it to him? > Any one else marrying someone who doesn’t like wearing jewelry, > and won’t wear/use anything if it is "too nice" [meaning, he'll stash > it away for fear of ruining it ]. Ideas needed! > — Ana
What about a portrait of yourself? Mike Guilbault, Photographer
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>How many women are planning on getting a wedding gift for your >fiance? What are you planning on giving him? Are you keeping >it a secret? When are you giving it to him? >Any one else marrying someone who doesn’t like wearing jewelry, >and won’t wear/use anything if it is "too nice" [meaning, he'll stash >it away for fear of ruining it ]. Ideas needed! >– Ana
Hi Ana! I am planning on giving my fiance a gift! He never wears jewelry, so that was out. I am an artist, so, I painted him a picture! He loves to read science fiction,medieval history and fantasy novels as well as movies, so I painted his portrait putting him in a in a fantasy setting. I can’t wait to give it to him. I will give it to him right after our ceramony, were we plan on having some moments alone together. On the back of it I wrote it’s title, and a dedication to him. Eileen Smith http://www.whiterosepath.com Free channeled Q&A Forum! Coming Soon! Channeled Q&A BBS with Alonya! Channeled, healing Spirit Art, nature spirits, Fey, Deva, Angels, guides, Totem Animals channeled meditation tapes for Master Guide Connection and Past Life Regression, personal transformation, inner healing and spiritual awareness.
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> How many women are planning on getting a wedding gift for your > fiance? What are you planning on giving him? Are you keeping > it a secret? When are you giving it to him? > Any one else marrying someone who doesn’t like wearing jewelry, > and won’t wear/use anything if it is "too nice" [meaning, he'll stash > it away for fear of ruining it ]. Ideas needed! > — Ana
I gave my husband a humidor. He only smokes cigars occasionally, but wanted a good place to keep them.
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Since we are spending quite a bit of money on the wedding (who isnt? ) – we decided to just give each other something small. I am crocheting him a blanket in his favorite color for snuggling on cold evenings. I would also like to give him something else – but havent quite decided yet. Nancy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How many women are planning on getting a wedding gift for your > fiance? What are you planning on giving him? Are you keeping > it a secret? When are you giving it to him? > Any one else marrying someone who doesn’t like wearing jewelry, > and won’t wear/use anything if it is "too nice" [meaning, he'll stash > it away for fear of ruining it ]. Ideas needed! > — Ana
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>How many women are planning on getting a wedding gift for your >fiance?
Got him a humidor (you know, for his cigars).
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I’ve had the *hardest* time with this question! I want to get him something he’ll use, something he’ll like, something that will last at least 5-10 years. If I buy a watch (which was my mother’s suggestion, apparently that is very traditional) he won’t like it, because he won’t have gotten to pick it out himself. (And he won’t tell me what features he’d like.) He suggested computer equipment, but I know that will be obsolete in 2 years or less, so that is out of the question for me. Inspiration finally struck (sometimes, you just have to be in the right place at the right time!) He just bought a suit. He loves chili peppers. If I can find them (or get them made in time!) he’s getting chili pepper cuff links and a chili pepper tie. I’ve actually been wanting to make him a chili pepper tie since Christmas, but the material has been sold out at the fabric store. So I might have to just buy one. And yes, I’m keeping it a secret. I know he won’t use them very often, but I think he’d really like this, and certainly he’s more likely to use them than regular cuff links! If I can’t get the cuff links, I’ll probably try to find some kind of interesting art deco clock. –Michelle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >How many women are planning on getting a wedding gift for your >fiance? What are you planning on giving him? Are you keeping >it a secret? When are you giving it to him? >Any one else marrying someone who doesn’t like wearing jewelry, >and won’t wear/use anything if it is "too nice" [meaning, he'll stash >it away for fear of ruining it ]. Ideas needed! >– Ana
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I am planning on getting him a gift, but I have no idea what it will be yet. I will probably present it to him either just before the wedding (not worried about the superstitions) or when we get to our honeymoon location. Also, he does not like to wear jewelry. He will wear his wedding band, but I would never dream of getting him any other peice of jewelry…except maybe a nice watch. Suzanne
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I am going to do a penand ink drawing of the Marine Corps emblem for my future hubby! His time in the Marine Corps meant so much to him (he is planning on wearing his dress blues instead of a tux!!!) I am planning on having it framed and the whole nine since I am going through the process of drawing it! I think I will give it to him at the rehearsal dinner. Kim (&Mike) Oct. 9, 1999 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > If I can scrounge together the money, it’ll be night vision binoculars. > > (He hates wearing jewelry and won’t be wearing a wedding ring – only on > > special ocassions) > > Cherise > If I may be so bold,why night vision binoculars? Or am I getting > too personal here I must admit, I had never thought of this > one! > — Ana > Well, it’s pretty simple and not at all kinky (atleast neither of us had > thought of it that way). We both *love* our normal binoculars – as we > are quite into nature things (birding, wildlife – the non-human > variety). So night visions binocs would less us go out hiking at night > too. > Pretty boring I guess….sorry > Cherise
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I bought my now husband a nice pocket watch that he uses when he has to work at the courthouse instead of the youth center. It is also engravable, but his isn’t since I bought it the day before the wedding….. Sheri
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I had a groom who wasn’t much into jewelery and already had a nicer watch than I could afford to buy for him. So for his wedding gift–he got a cross-stitch picture of a horse drawn fire engine (he’s a firefighter). He knew I had started the picture and originally it was to be a birthday gift, but it took a lot longer than I expected to finish. At the bottom, I cross stitched my name and our wedding date. He loved it and it hangs in our bedroom above his dresser. So maybe something crafted by your hands. If he has an office, how about a silver picture frame for his desk that you can put a wedding photo in. I had a friend who gave her husband a super fancy golf bag that he lusted for but would have never bought for himself. I guess what I’m saying is to think out of the mold on gifts. Hope this helps. Maggie J. Lawrence Photography Auburn AL
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I am getting Chris a sword. He really admired them in the Ren Faire this past summer and I figured I would get him one! Heidi > How many women are planning on getting a wedding gift for your > fiance? What are you planning on giving him? Are you keeping > it a secret? When are you giving it to him? > Any one else marrying someone who doesn’t like wearing jewelry, > and won’t wear/use anything if it is "too nice" [meaning, he'll stash > it away for fear of ruining it ]. Ideas needed! > — Ana
– Go check out my K1 Visa Homepage at http://www.angelfire.com/ny/heidichris/index.html "All you need is love" – The Beatles
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> How many women are planning on getting a wedding gift for your > fiance? What are you planning on giving him? Are you keeping > it a secret? When are you giving it to him? > Any one else marrying someone who doesn’t like wearing jewelry, > and won’t wear/use anything if it is "too nice" [meaning, he'll stash > it away for fear of ruining it ]. Ideas needed! > — Ana
I gave David a brand new electric razor. Sounds silly, but he really wanted one. His was so old and dull it would nic him. He couldn’t get a close shave out of it. So, I got him a new one. Gave it to him the day before the wedding. And yes, it was a secret. He was pretty surprised… and thrilled. He ran into the bathroom and shaved right away. If I had gotten him anything else I would have saved it for after the wedding, but something told me he might like to have this gift beforehand. I was right. A nice, smoothe, "baby-butt soft" face on Wday.
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Well, if I can *find* it, I’m going to get him a 1972 Nolan Ryan baseball card. It’s the only one he’s missing from that set, and he won’t buy it for himself because of price, and it’s something he wants. I’m going to keep it a secret. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->How many women are planning on getting a wedding gift for your >fiance? What are you planning on giving him? Are you keeping >it a secret? When are you giving it to him? >Any one else marrying someone who doesn’t like wearing jewelry, >and won’t wear/use anything if it is "too nice" [meaning, he'll stash >it away for fear of ruining it ]. Ideas needed! >– Ana
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>How many women are planning on getting a wedding gift for your >fiance? What are you planning on giving him? Are you keeping >it a secret? When are you giving it to him? >Any one else marrying someone who doesn’t like wearing jewelry, >and won’t wear/use anything if it is "too nice" [meaning, he'll stash >it away for fear of ruining it ]. Ideas needed! >– Ana
My now-husband graduated from Auburn University and has always loved eagles so I got him a figurine of a beautiful eagle. He loved it. Amy/Cornie
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I’m planning on getting Aaron a recordable CD drive or a digital camera. It will be a secret, down to the fact that I’m not even paying for it out of our joint account. Jodi and Aaron June 20, 1998 http://www.disario.com/wedding
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>How many women are planning on getting a wedding gift for your >fiance? What are you planning on giving him?
A mandolin. He has always wanted to learn how to play, seems a good time to make a dream come true for him…. maureen . . . . . . . . . . . .
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I’m getting him a mountain bike. I want to take him to pick it out so he gets what he really wants. We’ll probably get it right before the wedding.
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How many women are planning on getting a wedding gift for your fiance? What are you planning on giving him? Are you keeping it a secret? When are you giving it to him? Any one else marrying someone who doesn’t like wearing jewelry, and won’t wear/use anything if it is "too nice" [meaning, he'll stash it away for fear of ruining it ]. Ideas needed! — Ana
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> Any one else marrying someone who doesn’t like wearing jewelry, > and won’t wear/use anything if it is "too nice" [meaning, he'll stash > it away for fear of ruining it ]. Ideas needed!
*raises hand* That’s mine, all over. It isn’t standard-issue groom’s gift, but I got him a very nice bathrobe; his is worn tissue-thin and will come out in holes any day now. I expect he’ll use this one. It’s a nice paisley, with dark green the dominant color. Just a thought. Dorothea — Dorothea M. Rovner | Gradual Student <*> | High Priestess of Mung dmrovner (at) students.wisc.edu |
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Question:
Congrats These little guys are just the best! > ****And now, the QUESTIONS!**** > Now that you’ve plowed through this long post, here at last are some > questions for all you PF lovers out there: > Is there anything you know about your bird now that you WISH you’d known > before you got him or her?
They *destroy* paper. Any paper. Turn your back for one second, and they’ll find your finished term paper and rip it to shreads! LOL, it would be really funny if it wasn’t so annoying! And it could be worse I suppose… They love to explore your body. They taste you (which can hurt if you don’t limit it), get in your eyes (which is wierd!) and attack any unknown jewelry. My baby took weeks to realize that my wedding rings really weren’t hurting me. She’d puff right up and hiss at them, then attack. They also explore in places they shouldn’t, like down the cushions of the couch. Be really really careful of these little guys, as they have **no fear*** and could easily be sat on. Mine likes other people, too, and will fly at them without warning. Some people freak out at flying birds, so warn them your littl guy might want to visit. Their poop can *fly*!! The best, though, is cuddling up with them. Our baby is a blackmask, and when my husband comes home and hits the couch, she flys over for cuddle time. She gets on his chest, he puts his hand over her, and goes to sleep. It’s adorable. Oh, and they’ll fly at you even if it’s dark. I came home one night, and called out to hubbie (who had baby). She took off, flying down a dark hall, trying to find me. She flew right into my chest (thank goodness not a wall) in the dark. Talk about devotion > Is there anything you wish you’d done differently than you did?
Not really. I wish I had more time, but between husband and I we’re home 23 hours a day. I also wish I’d hidden that term paper > Jenny in NH > w/budgies Guy & Missy, and a Lovebird to be named later! > To reply by e-mail, change "heart" to "hearth".
Hope you enjoy your new family member. They’re fabulous little guys with such personality! — Lesleyanne
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Thanks, Lesleyanne! That’s exactly the sort of info I’m looking for. (*V*) — Jenny in NH w/budgies Guy & Missy and a Lovebird to be named later. To reply by e-mail, change "heart" to "hearth".
<*SNIP*> >They *destroy* paper. Any paper. Turn your back for one second, and >they’ll find your finished term paper and rip it to shreads! LOL, it >would be really funny if it wasn’t so annoying! And it could be worse I >suppose…
<*SNIP*>
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>Is there anything you know about your bird now that you WISH you’d known >before you got him or her? >Is there anything you wish you’d done differently than you did?
They are incredibly horny birds, to be blunt. Hope you won’t be too embarassed by the way the bird will find to amuse itself. Peach faced are very aggressive. (Excuse my spelling.) Be careful of the toys you give the bird. They will chew anything up. Be particularly leery of giving it those plastic balls with the bell on the inside. They will find a way to get that little bell out. Part 2 of question – We read the books, which said to not handle the bird for several weeks after bringing it home. BULL!! I say you need to handle it from the very beginning. You don’t want to lose contact with it. I know you’ll love your peach face. They really are the most beautiful kind. They are highly amusing. They never stop being suprisingly CUTE!!! They’re the best. Very animated. (Posted & CC to Author)
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Wow – just got a call from the aviary this noontime – our bird is weaned and eating on his own! I hadn’t expected it quite this quickly – just last Saturday, they’d said 1 to 1 1/2 weeks. They probably gave us a deliberately long estimate so we wouldn’t get anxious. Now the next trick is the storm that’s headed towards us from the southwest – if it doesn’t get here before Bill gets home from work with the car this evening, we’ll pick up our bird tonight. Otherwise, we’ll have to wait until Saturday at least, since this is supposed to be a big messy storm that will last through until overnight on Friday. Keep your fingers crossed! Sounds from what everyone is saying that PFs are a tightly-packed little bundle of personality. It will help that I’m in the home all day – I’ll be here to keep an eye on things and give the attention our little guy needs. It’s good to be warned how aggressive they can be with toys – I’ve upgraded the notion in my head about how sturdy playthings need to be. Thanks, everyone! — Jenny in NH w/budgies Guy & Missy, and a Lovebird to be named soon! To reply by e-mail, change "heart" to "hearth".
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Is there anything you know about your bird now that you WISH you’d known >before you got him or her? >Is there anything you wish you’d done differently than you did? >They are incredibly horny birds, to be blunt. Hope you won’t be too embarassed >by the way the bird will find to amuse itself. >Peach faced are very aggressive. (Excuse my spelling.) >Be careful of the toys you give the bird. They will chew anything up. Be >particularly leery of giving it those plastic balls with the bell on the >inside. They will find a way to get that little bell out. >Part 2 of question – We read the books, which said to not handle the bird for >several weeks after bringing it home. BULL!! I say you need to handle it from >the very beginning. You don’t want to lose contact with it. >I know you’ll love your peach face. They really are the most beautiful kind. >They are highly amusing. They never stop being suprisingly CUTE!!! They’re >the best. Very animated. >(Posted & CC to Author)
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Thanks for asking! Well, the new addition has been home since last Thursday evening. Turns out he weaned fairly young – his hatch date was Dec. 10, which means he was 5 weeks and 1 day old when we brought him home! (I use "him" as an arbitrary designation – we don’t know if we’ve got a boy or a girl.) He settled in fairly quickly – by Friday morning, he was already chowing down heavily on millet spray, picking through his cockatiel mix, calling responses to our budgies (who are within hearing range), and exploring the cage. By Friday night, we’d named him Pippin. As I listened to him calling, I was taken by how sweet his little "squeaks" sounded. The thought "You’re just a sweet little pipsqueak" flashed through my head. We chose Pippin to evoke the "pipsqueak" concept, but sound a *little* more dignified. By Sunday afternoon, Pippin was enjoying and craving the head and neck scratching he’d get when we took him out of the cage. This morning, "Up" is close to perfect, though he loves the attention enough that he’s a bit reluctant to be put back in the cage. We have to be careful not to overdo it, or we’ll spoil the little darling rotten! We’ve built a little t-perch for him to sit on when I’m working at the computer. Bought an inexpensive ($2.49) dowel t-perch at the aviary that was designed to mount on top of a cage, then went to Wal-Mart and bought an 88-cent tin pie pan with a diameter about an inch larger than the length of the cross bar on the perch. Turned the pie pan upside down, drilled a hole in the center, and mounted the t-perch on it. Voila! A servicable, stable, washable perch that will catch the poop, all for less than $4! If we’d had the facilities and tools for Bill to assemble the perch with, we could have cut that expense even further by starting completely from scratch. — Jenny in NH w/budgies Guy & Missy, and PF LB Pippin To reply by e-mail, change "heart" to "hearth". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >By all means let us know what you name the newest little bird. And how you >picked the name. (Seems to me, they almost pick their own names.) >All the best from a ‘tiel slave, >Martin and Quetzalli >(lotsa tiel dust ,.,.^,.,`.,.’,.,*.,.’,.,/.,.,,;,.,.)
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> I know you’ll love your peach face. They really are the most beautiful kind. > They are highly amusing. They never stop being suprisingly CUTE!!! They’re > the best. Very animated.
Yes they are certainly very cute – my PFs’ wings are both clipped and when they are out on the floor and wanted to go to their cage (which I hang up on a stand) they would come and stand on my foot and look at me with their big round eyes!
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writes: >I had only seen front views of PFs before, I think – and I don’t think any >photography could adequately capture the colors I saw on this bird,
You’ve made a great choice. Besides being extremely beautiful they are aptly named. You’ll love your new bird. I have no negative comments at all about PFLB’s. Mike
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By all means let us know what you name the newest little bird. And how you picked the name. (Seems to me, they almost pick their own names.) All the best from a ‘tiel slave, Martin and Quetzalli (lotsa tiel dust ,.,.^,.,`.,.’,.,*.,.’,.,/.,.,,;,.,.)
=>Wow – just got a call from the aviary this noontime – our bird is weaned and =>eating on his own! I hadn’t expected it quite this quickly – just last (SNIP) =>Jenny in NH =>w/budgies Guy & Missy, and a Lovebird to be named soon! –===– –===– –===– –===– –===– Most replies need only be sent to this NG — some rare exceptions may exist. The header address is fake. (Imagine that.) Use martinb AT connect DOT ab DOT ca
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After months of studying different types of birds, reading everything here, and meeting as many different birds as we could everywhere we went, my husband Bill and I have finally found THE ONE. (*V*) We stopped into our local bird store, Wingsong Aviaries, on Saturday. Excellent place – they’ve been in business for 17 years or so as breeders, and it’s where we go for wing clipping and all our bird supplies. Well, this Saturday they had 3 young Peach Face Lovebirds available, about 5 1/2 weeks old – one Lutino, and two normal coloration. They’re still being handfed, and will be released to purchasers only when they’re weaned. The Lutino was already sold, but that’s okay – we saw the colors on the others, and that was the end of it. I had only seen front views of PFs before, I think – and I don’t think any photography could adequately capture the colors I saw on this bird, anyhow. Certainly, that iridescent turquoise around the rump and tail would never have shown up correctly in a photo, and I don’t recall the green on the body looking that lovely in any pictures I’d seen! Bottom line, this was the first bird that BOTH Bill and I found ourselves enchanted by – which is important, since this is intended to be a companion bird that we will both enjoy. There was no hesitation – in fact, even though I’ve been the one most interested in getting another bird, BILL was the one who rushed over to the store owner and asked what we had to do to reserve a Lovebird! We handled the two standard-color birds carefully to see if we could detect any behavior differences, anything that would give us a reason to choose one bird rather than the other. Visually, after all, they looked identical. One of the two seemed a little more comfortable being handled, a bit less shy about simply sitting straight up, looking at us and checking us out – we chose that one. His/her left wing got clipped for later identification, and we went off to pay our deposit. In about 1 1/2 to 2 weeks, we’ll be getting a call that our darling is weaned and ready to go home. Meanwhile, we’re getting things set up here – buying the cage, putting it in the right place, etc. And anxiously awaiting the moment we actually, finally, have our new friend in our home! ****And now, the QUESTIONS!**** Now that you’ve plowed through this long post, here at last are some questions for all you PF lovers out there: Is there anything you know about your bird now that you WISH you’d known before you got him or her? Is there anything you wish you’d done differently than you did? As much as possible, I want to get this right, and your input would be greatly appreciated! BTW, I do know that Bird Talk featured Lovebirds in the January issue. I missed that on local newsstands (they only carry the magazine sporadically – I am planning to subscribe!). When I e-mailed the magazine to ask about buying that issue, they replied that they don’t sell individual copies, but would be glad to send me a complimentary copy of that one! Now THAT’S service! — Jenny in NH w/budgies Guy & Missy, and a Lovebird to be named later! To reply by e-mail, change "heart" to "hearth".
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Question:
Any recommendations for nice stores for shopping for both classic and maybe somewhat unusual wedding rings in Boston area?
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Ann- My fiancee and I went to Epstein & Barry in the Jeweler’s Building at Downtown Crossing. I would highly recommend them. Our jewler’s name was Jeff Epstein, he was great! Sue
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Hi Sue, I also recommend Epstein & Barry (or is it Barry and Epstein?). About 6 years ago I bought my husband (although he was only my boyfriend at the time a Movado watch at the same shop. I went in about 4 weeks before Christmas to see what they had. I ordered the watch and when I went back to pick it up decided to have it engraved. Thus, I had to leave it for another few days (it is soooooo busy around x-mas time). I then when back to pick up the engraved watch and found a scratch on the glass face of the watch. (Actually Mr. Barry found it before me). Anyways, it was completely unacceptable for him to give me that watch (as well as I). He special ordered another one, had it in two days – engraved it and personally brought it to me at work. While the watch was fairly expensive there were LOTS of other more expensive things in the store but he took time out, during his busiest time of the year, and delivered it to me. Thus, I am REALLY impressed with this company. In recent years we have always gone into the jewelers building to look around but we usually end up buying from his shop. Regards, Lisa Ann Trainor The Wedding Person Editor, Alt.wedding FAQ Columnist, Ask Lisa ORIGINAL MESSAGE Ann- My fiancee and I went to Epstein & Barry in the Jeweler’s Building at Downtown Crossing. I would highly recommend them. Our jewler’s name was Jeff Epstein, he was great! Sue
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Ann- We bought our rings at Ross Jewelers (that was ten years ago, though). They carried the classic styles as well as some unusal selections. I’ve never seen any like ours since (They supposedly got them in the day we went shopping for them and had just put them out. Although I checked many times over the next few months/years, I never saw the same rings there again. The have locations at most of the regional malls. I’ve bought a lot from them over the years; we kind of collected jewelry (for my wife who got all the presents before we had kids) and always got a good deal, which I usually bartered with them. I have never been disappointed with the quality, or service. Good Luck Paul > Any recommendations for nice stores for shopping for both > classic and maybe somewhat unusual wedding rings in Boston > area?
– Paul Stonkus Let ‘Em Eat Cake & Plumage –Fine design in Wedding Florals, Cakes, Chocolates, and Favors for all your special occasions *Quality Quest Companies*
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I highly recommend Sisters Jewelers in the Jeweler’s Building on Washington Street in downtown Boston. We got a very high quality diamond, excellent service and had a delightful time with the two very funny sisters. I spent more than year looking (so that I could recommend the one I liked to my then fiance ), so by the time I found Sisters Jewelers by accident, I could really recognize a high quality diamond. Six years later I am still very happy with it. –Nancy Reynolds
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We have been very happy with Bouvier Jewlers in the Downtown crossing jewlry mart bbuilding. We got my engagement ring there and are going this weekend to get our wedding bands. Anne
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>We have been very happy with Bouvier Jewlers in the Downtown crossing >jewlry mart bbuilding. We got my engagement ring there and are going this >weekend to get our wedding bands. >Anne
I agree! Paul bought my engagement ring from Danny Bouvier, and has been dealing with Gil Bouvier for years (he has a collection of estate pocketwatches). We also plan to buy our wedding bands from them; they are great to work with. (By the way, Gil does his own jewelry designing too – I’ve seen some of his work and it’s exquisite.) Betsy
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(Should they set aside time to go ring shopping St. Thomas?) I have bought jewelry in Puerto Rico, the Cayman Islands, and in Asia many times. Not St. Thomas, but I suspect from the similarities between the Puerto Rican experience and the Cayman Island experience might be helpful to you. I do think it is worth it, though and here are my reasons: 1) The variety of jewelry and stones used in settings is much more diverse than you can find in the U.S. I, for one, am always looking for more unique pieces than what I find in most stores in the U.S. 2) You can probably save about 25% over U.S. prices by purchasing in the Carribean. What you chose to do about declaring things to customs is your business, but some people chose not to tell customs agents about their purchases provided they aren’t planning on re-selling their jewelry. I’ve heard that those people MAIL themselves their receipts and any documentation for their jewelry so that they aren’t noticed in a luggage search were one to take place. In Asia I think savings are greater, more like 50% but that could be that my family used to live there and we have traveled extensively there and thus know the places to shop and know a good deal when we see them. 3) Its also (to me maybe) a fun way to spend a few hours. 4) Usually the jewelry stores are clustered around so you can comparisen shop between local businesses rather easily. 5) Everyone in the carribean seems to be willing to bargain over prices at least a little bit. Start by saying you want to get a piece for half of what they tell you the price is and see where that gets you. Figure you can bargain off at least 10% of the price they quote you. Be sure to find out if they are going to charge you tax, though. Sometimes they’ll let you talk them down 10% then they’ll tax you 7.5%. I wouldn’t really recommend that you buy diamonds there unless you know a lot about them because the chance of getting ripped off is greater with diamonds. You could probably purchase gold rings without any stones for at least a 25% savings and other semi-precious and precious stones for somewhere in that ballpark too. You can frequently select a stone from a set of pre-cut loose stones and have it set in a ring while you wait. I’d also recommend that you try to find out when major cruise liners will be docking and pick a day that there aren’t any, or at least that there aren’t many because some days three, four, maybe more big liners come to port and then it gets hard to get a salesperson to pay attention to you. Good luck! KTS
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Hi all. My folks, my SO, and myself are all going to St John (US Virgin Islands) next winter. I’ve heard that nearby St. Thomas is an excellent place for shopping, particularly for jewelry. My SO and I are planning on getting married in another year or two, so I was wondering if maybe we should take a ferry over from St John for a day to go wedding ring shopping in St Thomas. Has anybody else done this? If we were going to do this, we would certainly spend time looking at rings here, so we would be somewhat knowledgable about comparing prices. But please, can someone out there tell me if this is really worth our bother? If you have done or tried this, are the savings to be found in St Thomas really significant enough that we should set aside a day of our vacation doing this? I would only want to do this if the savings to be found would be considerable, since it would be a day of our vacation AND we would probably have to decide and buy the ring THAT DAY – I’m only willing to be that serious about the shopping if it is really going to save us some cash – since here at home we could have all the time in the world to look, think it over, and look some more before making a final purchase. Any advice from someone who has shopped in St Thomas would be appreciated. Thanks! Casey Forrest
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