Wedding Rings

Mom requesting advice

Question:

Perhaps she needs a little support about the baby – it must be difficult expecting without her Mum their and getting married too – both as you know are times a girl just wants Mum to be involved….. Perhaps she feels you are trying to take over because you are being so generous and the guest list was her way of stamping her feet about it all …. Or alternatively do nothing but support your son in his descision, perhaps explain the way you feel without slagging the girl off and see if his quiet word to her helps. I was in a situation where I did not get on with the mother of a boyfriend and it made things very uncomfortable and silly things hurt both of us. We have since become good friends after spending time with each other. Clare

Response:

I hesitated about responding to your message, but decided to go ahead and perhaps give you a few thoughts to ponder.  First, I’d like to say that it truly sounds like you’ve been trying to do all you can to help.  That is commendable.  However, it may be possible that in your trying so hard to help and to carry the financial burden, that it triggered some feelings in your future d-i-l.  It sounds like she had a very difficult childhood, and believe me (I know from personal experience), that can have a tremendous affect on your adult life if you haven’t had some counseling and worked through some of those issues.  Oftentimes women as adults who were either abused or abandoned (and death is a form of abandonment) are extremely fearful of being hurt again as adults.  Most times, they don’t realize this on a conscious level, but it is a deeper protective mechanism that was probably put in place years ago.  One of the ways to protect oneself from being abandoned or rejected is to run away (or perhaps go to another apartment with people you feel safe with).  When I used to behave irrationally (and at the time, I didn’t see it as irrational behavior), and friends or family would comment on it, it would just make me angry.  Because for most of my life I had felt like I had no control over what happened to me, as an adult I would try to take control of my life however I could, even if it put me in a bad light in other people’s eyes. I wouldn’t necessarily say your future d-i-l has mental problems…and to insinuate that might cause even a greater rift and more pain.  But it definitely sounds like she needs some help.  Unfortunately, that help can’t be forced down her throat.  To truly be helped, one has to reach out for themselves and get help.  Sometimes we have to go through an awful lot of pain before we realize we need help. Meanwhile, I would encourage you to use "I messages" when you talk to your son or to your future d-i-l.  For example, in your message you indicated you would draw the line at rudeness.  If I may, I’m going to quote something you wrote. "I will challenge any open affront or rudeness with expressions like " That is a hurtful ( rude) remark, I am sure you didn’t mean to say that." I quoted this as an example of a "You message."  "I am sure YOU didn’t mean to say that" is the type of remark that would make me angry because it would feel like I was being attacked.  Actually, I am dealing with a similar issue right now with my own daughter.  She can be very rude to people.  I used to correct her all the time, and get angry at her for being so rude.  A very dear friend of mine gave me something to think about when she said to me, "She’s an adult, and if she is rude, she will pay for it in the long run. Your friends know that it is your daughter being rude, not you."  That helped me to see that I was taking her rudeness personally, as though people would look down on me because she was rude, and I had raised her.  But I know I didn’t raise her to be rude.  She chose that path all on her own, much due to some things that happened to her when she was 17, that caused her to put up fences…heck, she built brick walls. Gosh, I can’t believe I’ve gone on and on.  I apologize if I have sounded like I’m taking her side.  I’m really trying to not take sides.  It is a no-win issue, because it sounds like both of you are feeling hurt and angry. Maybe the realization that she is responsible for her own actions will help take some of the pressure off you. I wish you the very best of luck. And I sure hope I don’t get flamed for this posting.  :-) PJ — If you click on reply, remove NOSPAM from email address. This was added to eliminate unsolicited email advertisements when posting to a newsgroup.  Remember, PJ says: "Friends are the chocolate chips in the cookies of life."

Response:

Advice: suggest to your son that he really try to get his fiancee into psychiatric tratment. This sounds like the symptoms of a pregnancy-triggered mental illness if I ever heard them. And if she does go, and does turn out to need help, please swallow your (entirely justified!) anger and be as supportive to both of them as possible. They’ll need it.         -Naomi, trying to plan a wedding through                 bipolar depression and not always                 as rational as she tries to be                 either — "I read ‘no law abridging’ to mean NO LAW ABRIDGING."                 Justice Hugo Black, U.S. Supreme Court

Response:

Wow.  I’m just in shock.  Some people just don’t seem to realize how good they’ve got it, do they?  Obviously your FDIL doesn’t seem to realize what a wonderful FMIL she has, which is too bad. FWIW, I think here’s what I would do: You, your husband, your son, and your FDIL need to sit down and talk. Express your love and concern for both of them and let them know that you are not only willing but *happy* to do everything you can to help them out.  BUT… explain that you are not a money tree and that you cannot continue to fund their wedding if it means that your friends and family are going to be excluded.  Be prepared to cut funding and don’t let tears or tantrums sway you.  At this point I wouldn’t bring the baby or any of that into it right now.  Just concentrate on the wedding issues. (one thing at a time) You might also have a private talk with your son.  Take him to lunch or something and see if he’s aware of this behaviour.  He may not realize that there is such a problem – or he may be closing his eyes to it.  Let him know that you love him and want to continue to be a part of his life – and his wife and child’s.   It seems to me that as long as you continue to let the FDIL take advantage, she will.   Good luck to you and please let us know what happens. Karen — Karen Simmons, Photographer       The DK Gallery   http://www.thedkgallery.com Atlanta, GA    404.233.1230

Response:

I really appreciate all the input from  moms and brides. I have had a talk to my husband and we are arranging to first talk to our son and explain our position  and concerns and support our talk with a cost sheet of what we have done so far and what still needs paying for. We are willing to forgo some points Such as invites to some of our friends and relatives. Truthfully, the wedding is too close to be practical now anyway. We are not prepared to negotiate on manners, respect and appropriate responses to gifts. If the bride is not going to answer givers with a card. Then it is my sons responsibility. I will not threaten to not attend. This is my privilege and I have a right to see my son married. After the wedding. I am going to withdraw my self till such time as they visit and act in a friendly manner. ( This will be difficult for me because I am not at all confrontational) I will make a great effort to reassure my son that we love him and want his happiness. This is attainable without hurting his family. We will then offer to sit down with both of them and go over the same ground rules. If my son isn’t in favor of this. Then he must take responsibility for dealing with his wife and supporting a reasonable relationship with his family. I will challenge any open affront or rudeness with expressions like " That is a hurtful ( rude) remark, I am sure you didn’t mean to say that." ( gulp) but I will try, for the time being to make sure we see both my son and FDIL together, so there can be no misunderstanding. I am willing to forget and forgive, but with the best intentions in the world, I can’t allow the abuse to continue. Again thank you for being there for a stranger, especially one who is in a confusing landscape. I will post after the wedding in 1 week 5 days and let you know how it went. Thanks patty-anne

Response:

(insert jaw dropped to the floor) Gather the bride and groom together and sit with them in a comfortable location. Tell them collectively that you understand their financial position and have been thus far willing to help them with a lovely wedding. However, a lovely attitude is a small price to pay in return. Until that attitude is displayed, until all gifts received thus far are properly acknowledged, until some level of maturity is visible, then your involvement in the wedding has come to an end as of NOW. No more money, no more favors, no more anything. If they claim to be mature enough to marry and raise a family, then they should mature enough to act like it. Both the bride and groom are behaving irresponsibly. (No insurance on the car? No birth control? No abstinence?) If you continue to fund this wedding, you are condoning their immature and rude behavior for all to witness.  Your money, if you choose to continue to give it out, might be better spent on serious pre-marital counseling. Hope this helps, Noe

Response:

Patty-Anne, While I understand your frustration and I think your position is reasonable and the things you are doing are all right, I gave one piece of advice which, since I was the only one giving it, seems to have been lost in the shuffle. I will reiterate. Your future daughter- in-law’s behavior looks EXACTLY like the symptoms of some forms of mental illness. She is certainly behaving unacceptably, and there’s nothing wrong with the position you are taking, but I BEG you to add to it an attempt to raise the issue of your FDIL’s apparent problems and urge them to consider taking her to see a good psychiatrist for a consultation. This is very possibly not a behavior problem but a profoundly severe medical issue. If she is sick, she is doubtless vastly more miserable herself than she is making anyone else, and she could easily be a danger to herself and her unborn child and possibly to others.         -Naomi — "I read ‘no law abridging’ to mean NO LAW ABRIDGING."                 Justice Hugo Black, U.S. Supreme Court

Response:

A question.  You said that your FDIL is an orphan, and now she’s hysterically concerned about possible miscarriages.  I know it’s a personal question, but how did her mother die?  It sounds like your FDIL is *terrified* and I wonder whether her mother died in childbirth. Orphans can have strong fears of abandonment, so she may be trying to push people away before they have a chance to hurt her.  Be careful taking too hardline a stance, because it does sound like she needs someone.   I do agree with other posters that she probably needs some psychological help, and I wish you, your son, her and your future grandchild my best wishes. —      "[She] is one of the secret masters of the world: a librarian.         They control information. Don’t ever piss one off."                                         – Spider Robinson, "Callahan Touch"

Response:

Niomi, I hadn’t overlooked your wise council. And have thought what you say has more bearing than I had first thought. I know it is true that illnesses are very often magnified with stress. I think I will speak with my son and advise him to make a private appointment with her Doctor. I believe he would be open to this as he is very concerned with her obsession with miscarrying. I don’t know if I mentioned that she had taken out several books from the library on 101 birth defects and how to avoid them, signs of impending miscarriage etc.. She chose nothing to reflect the happier and healthier aspect of pregnancy. This is itself is something that may indicate her mental state. Fear is a dreadful thing whether real or (I hate to use the word imaginary, but I don’t know another) I should also clear up one other thing. They did have insurance on their car. But not for fire and theft. It was for public liability and property damage that they were insured for. I hope that you are doing well with your own planning and that your day will be perfect for you. again thanks for your input.. patty-anne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Patty-Anne, >While I understand your frustration and I think your >position is reasonable and the things you are doing >are all right, I gave one piece of advice which, since >I was the only one giving it, seems to have been lost >in the shuffle. I will reiterate. Your future daughter- >in-law’s behavior looks EXACTLY like the symptoms of >some forms of mental illness. She is certainly behaving >unacceptably, and there’s nothing wrong with the >position you are taking, but I BEG you to add to it >an attempt to raise the issue of your FDIL’s apparent >problems and urge them to consider taking her to see >a good psychiatrist for a consultation. This is very >possibly not a behavior problem but a profoundly severe >medical issue. If she is sick, she is doubtless vastly >more miserable herself than she is making anyone else, >and she could easily be a danger to herself and her >unborn child and possibly to others. > -Naomi >– >"I read ‘no law abridging’ to mean NO LAW ABRIDGING." > Justice Hugo Black, U.S. Supreme Court

Response:

>Niomi, I hadn’t overlooked your wise council. And have thought what you say >has more bearing than I had first thought. I know it is true that illnesses >are very often magnified with stress.

Thank you. One other factor which may be present: pregnancy- related hormones can alter brain chemistry, either alleviating or triggering neurochemical problems which are already there. Most mental illnesses come from either excess or deficiency of certain kinds of chemicals in the brain, rather than from out- side events or emotions; events or emotions just get tangled up in them, affecting and affected by the chemistry. The stress of your FDIL’s situation may be adding to the symptoms of an existing neurochemical disorder, yes, but also the hormonal changes involved in pregnancy may be changing her brain chem- istry for the worse in its own right. Some of her symptoms sound like they resemble the manic side of bipolar disorder, and I know that pregnancy often increases the supply of neuro- chemicals which, in overabundance, can cause mania. (The flip side of this is why so many women get postpartum depression… as soon as their hormones snap back to nonpregnant status, they *stop* making enough of those neurochemicals, and swing to the other end of the spectrum.) Anyway, I’m very glad to hear that your son may be willing to help get a doctor involved in the question of your FDIL’s behavior. I hope, whether it turns out she is ill or not, everything gets concluded satisfactorily and turns out okay. >I hope that you are doing well with your own planning and that your day will >be perfect for you.

Thank you. Working on it. And trying my best not to be a bitch from hell myself even when my brain chemistry is misbehaving six ways from Sunday… >again thanks for your input.. >patty-anne

        -Naomi — "I read ‘no law abridging’ to mean NO LAW ABRIDGING."                 Justice Hugo Black, U.S. Supreme Court

Response:

> Since the moment she found she was pregnant, the bride has been mega > When my daughter got married I gained the worlds best son in law. I was not > expecting this. > Thanks for the rant. >  patty-anne, mother-in-law from hell.

I feel really sorry for you and your family, especially your son since he wants to marry a person like this. Does he know how she treats you?  This is not an example of love … It’s an example of greediness, hatred, and jealousy. Love is not greedy; Love is not hateful; Love is not jealous. It sounds like she is jealous of your family and how bountiful you are, since she is an orphan and has none of that. It’s clearly that you’ve tried to give her your love and it’s obvious that she is pushing you away and is afraid to accept your love. If she can’t accept your love, how can she accept your sons love? Is your son affraid of speaking up to her?  I know you want your son to be happy, and any mother wants to do what is right, but this is attitude of hers is ridiculus. If they can’t afford to have an elaborate wedding, then they need to have a small sweet justice of the peace wedding, cheap and affordable. How does your son feel about her attitude lately? If he doesn’t like the way she is treating you, then he needs to get his priorities straight. There are many other nice fish in the sea, not b****es like this one. Talk to your son. Tell him how you feel and tell him that you aren’t going to accept his fiance’s attitude anymore. She needs to know what respect means. I’d like to hear how it goes… please post with the results. My prayers are with you and your family, Ruth marrying Bob 10/9/99

Response:

Excellent response, LilCub. To the original poster:  You have done more than enough and have been very gracious under the circumstances.  I’m apalled that someone can treat others this way.  I think your best bet would be to talk to your son and tell him that although make it clear that you support him no matter what,  you do have some concerns.  It doesn’t sound as if he’s very happy with things the way they are and maybe he just needs an opening to discuss how he feels. There comes a point where you must stand up for yourself and your family.  No one deserves to be treated so disrespectfully.  I don’t care that she’s the bride or that she is pregnant – it doesn’t give her the right to act selfish, spoiled or cruel towards others. I’m afraid that this is only the beginning if you don’t try to get a handle on things now (actually, you son needs to get a handle on things).  If she is acting this way now, chances are very good that she will continue to do so, if not worse.  Best of luck to you and yours, I think you’re going to need it. Nicole

Response:

It sounds to me like your son is marrying one very screwed up young lady.  By the sounds of it she was ok until she found out that she was expecting but has gone to pieces since finding out. I can’t help wondering to what extent if any that is connected to her being an Orphan and being scared by the thought of loosing someone else that she loves, and someone who is her only ‘blood relation’ – sometimes getting pregnant is a very painful and emotional time. Having said that, I don’t think it is right for you to let her treat you like this.  I think you need to demand a degree of respect, you need to be seen as more than just an open purse.  I’d suggest actually getting her and your son together for a talk, tell them how this is making you feel and seeing if you can resolve it.  Obviously you don’t want to start throwing out too many ultimatums since you risk loosing your son and your grandchild if you push too hard but I do think you can and should demand her to be polite. Carol — * * * * *    All acts of love and pleasure are Her rituals    * * * * * * * * *    So, be excellent to each other, and party on dudes   * * * *

Response:

When my son got engaged a couple of months back to his gal from the opposite coast, we were delighted. She is an orphan and living out here, we were happy for him and opened our home heart and wallet to them.  They were going to get married in March, but when she mentioned she spent last Christmas alone, my son decided that they should be married by Christmas. So far so good. I booked  the Hall, booked music, made invitations, helped to do flowers purchased most of the meal and the booze and cooked the meat and a bunch of other stuff.I gave them my moms engagement ring and paid for the wedding bands. They wanted an arbor ($175) we got it. The groom picked it out and the bride said to me, hope you ( meaning me) didn’t get something gawkie. Then two weeks ago my son had his car stolen and stripped and he didn’t have it insured for fore and theft. I lent them my car for a week and we got a beater on the road ( at our expense and got them running) By this time the bride was showing strain. She was tired ,crying jags, loss of appetite. A trip to the Drs.. solved the mystery. I will be a Grandma in about 8 months. Since the moment she found she was pregnant, the bride has been mega has basically gone to bed for the duration. Got mege books from the library about miscarrying and birth defects. She has decided that most of our side can’t come to the wedding except for immediate family. She threw away all the invited for uncles cousins etc..,. I mentioned that this wasn’t;t really polite and she positively spit that it was HER wedding. and it would be how SHE wanted it. I have yet to hear her say the word our in either wedding marriage or parenthood. Several of our folks have sent cheques. She opened them her, took the cheques and left the cards on the table. I tried to return them to her and her response was I don’t know those people just throw them away. She has already decided she doesn’t like my daughter and she has never met her. I can see sparks on the horizon. I am biting my LIP big time . I don’t want to be one of those mother in laws. I know she feels is in competition with the other women in my sons life ( me and his sis)  and this just isn’t the case but she is so rude to us. I also know that she misses her mom and resents the fact that I am here and her mom is dead, but I can’t help that. Her dad won’t be here either.  She said all his $$ goes to the bar.They are not very well off  and were out of work when the east coast fishing went down.  I am not going to play any games with the grandchild. I am delighted. I will buy the traditionally gift ( either cot or buggy) and will be here if approached but I feel there is a danger that I will be told if I do this I can’t see Jr or if I don’t do that I can’t see Jr. I cannot play that game. Like I said I am here, but I won’t be levered. before her shower  tonight and she just phoned to tell me what to bring. She knew I had bought her a brides book. She told me she had picked out one for her sister to buy for her. Because I was an old lady an probably had weird taste. AND SHE WANTS IT RIGHT. She keeps saying things about "oh well you can afford it, we are broke". in almost every conversation. It is getting to me I am afraid. At the shower, ( it was held in the activity room in her apt building. She arrives, grabbed two of the guests and went to her apartment for 45 minutes while the rest of us sat there. Finally her cousin buzzed and asked her to come back down. She said " What do you need me for?" then the cousin was handing out pencils and paper for a game and she sat tapping her foot saying "Oh this is exciting, yuppers this is real exciting, are we enjoying ourselves yet?" Her cousin, the hostess was in tears at then of the evening. I am at my wits end on how to approach her. My son is walking around like a shadow, we are all on edge. There will be 85 people at the wedding. Seven related to us 22 related to her 4 friends of my son and the rest her friends. But we are paying for it. My boy suggested on friend who went to school with him and she said "Forget it, I don’t know them. Please any suggestions would  be appreciated. When my daughter got married I gained the worlds best son in law. I was not expecting this. Thanks for the rant.  patty-anne, mother-in-law from hell.

Response:

Wow, that is quite a situation! I’d first like to say, you’ve seem to handle everything quite gracefully! However, as you have foreseen, chances are that there are going to be several more problems before the marriage and many after. I’d suggest finding a support group (if they exist for this) or counseling concerning her controling and childish behavior. There could be several reasons she is acting this way (medical, pyschological, conditional, etc.) but you will have to learn how to deal with it, since she seems to feel she isn’t doing anything wrong. I’d approach your son first to see how he feels about the whole situation and ask if he would possibly consider premarrital counseling (heck, if she treated me this way, I’d demand it before I paid out a dime for the wedding). Your son may feel as though he has a responsibility about the baby now and can’t possibly leave the situation, whatever he feels, let him know that you will support his decision no matter what. And of course the FDIL will hold the baby against you if you don’t do what she wants, but I wouldn’t advise giving in – you’ll only make the situation more difficult to everyone involved (especailly the child). Just keep praying that she will see the light. You have been too generous to deserve this type of treatment from her. If it were me, I’d tell my son and his fiance that I have to resind my offer to pay and plan the whole wedding and can only offer to pay for 1/2 of it. I would offer this reason (only if asked) "I can not justify paying the whole bill for my son’s wedding that will exclude my dearest family and friends because the bride does not care nor want to meet the family she is marrying into". Best of Luck, my prayers with you and your son.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> When my son got engaged a couple of months back to his gal from the opposite > coast, we were delighted. > She is an orphan and living out here, we were happy for him and opened our > home heart and wallet to them. >  They were going to get married in March, but when > she mentioned she spent last Christmas alone, my son decided that they > should be married by Christmas. > So far so good. I booked  the Hall, booked music, made invitations, helped > to do flowers purchased most of the meal and the booze and cooked the meat > and a bunch of other stuff.I gave them my moms engagement ring and paid for > the wedding bands. They wanted an arbor ($175) we got it. The groom picked > it out and the bride said to me, hope you ( meaning me) didn’t get something > gawkie. > Then two weeks ago my son had his car stolen and stripped and he didn’t have > it insured for fore and theft. I lent them my car for a week and we got a > beater on the road ( at our expense and got them running) > By this time the bride was showing strain. She was tired ,crying jags, loss > of appetite. A trip to the Drs.. solved the mystery. I will be a Grandma in > about 8 months. > Since the moment she found she was pregnant, the bride has been mega > has basically gone to bed for the duration. Got mege books from the library > about miscarrying and birth defects. > She has decided that most of our side can’t come to the wedding except for > immediate > family. She threw away all the invited for uncles cousins etc..,. I > mentioned > that this wasn’t;t really polite and she positively spit that it was HER > wedding. and it would be how SHE wanted it. I have yet to hear her say the > word our in either wedding marriage or parenthood. > Several of our folks have sent cheques. She opened them her, took the > cheques and left the cards on the table. I tried to return them to her and > her response was I don’t know those people just throw them away. > She has already decided she doesn’t like my daughter and she has never met > her. I can see sparks on the horizon. > I am biting my LIP big time . I don’t want to be one of those mother in > laws. I know she feels is in competition with the other women in my sons > life ( me > and his sis)  and this just isn’t the case but she is so rude to us. > I also know that she misses her mom and resents the fact that I am here and > her mom is dead, but I can’t help that. Her dad won’t be here either.  She > said all his $$ goes to the bar.They are not very well off  and were out of > work when the east coast fishing went down. >  I am not going to play any games with the grandchild. I am > delighted. I will buy the traditionally gift ( either cot or buggy) and will > be here if approached but I feel there is a danger that I will be told if I > do > this I can’t see Jr or if I don’t do that I can’t see Jr. I cannot play that > game. Like I said I am here, but I won’t be levered. > before her shower  tonight and she just phoned to tell me what to bring. She > knew I had bought her a brides book. She told me she had picked out one for > her sister to buy for her. Because I was an old lady an probably had weird > taste. AND SHE WANTS IT RIGHT. She keeps saying things about "oh well you > can afford it, we are broke". in almost every conversation. It is getting to > me I am afraid. > At the shower, ( it was held in the activity room in her apt building. She > arrives, grabbed two of the guests and went to her apartment for 45 minutes > while the rest of us sat there. Finally her cousin buzzed and asked her to > come back down. She said " What do you need me for?" then the cousin was > handing out pencils and paper for a game and she sat tapping her foot saying > "Oh this is exciting, yuppers this is real exciting, are we enjoying > ourselves yet?" Her cousin, the hostess was in tears at then of the evening. > I am at my wits end on how to approach her. My son is walking around like a > shadow, we are all on edge. There will be 85 people at the wedding. Seven > related to us 22 related to her 4 friends of my son and the rest her > friends. But we are paying for it. My boy suggested on friend who went to > school with him and she said "Forget it, I don’t know them. > Please any suggestions would  be appreciated. > When my daughter got married I gained the worlds best son in law. I was not > expecting this. > Thanks for the rant. >  patty-anne, mother-in-law from hell.

Response:

Hi. Your FDIL is a USER big time. I’ve known enough to reconize the symptoms. The only way I’ve ever been able to rid a user is termination of cash flow. Maybe you can’t rid her but your son should, he’s in for bad times ahead I’m afraid. I know there’s a baby on the way but sounds like she’s gonna control everything from the get go anyhow. Faerigirl

Response:

> When my son got engaged a couple of months back to his gal from the opposite > coast, we were delighted. > She is an orphan and living out here, we were happy for him and opened our > home heart and wallet to them. ……. > Thanks for the rant. >  patty-anne, mother-in-law from hell. > Wow!  My heart really goes out to you.  You have been extremely generous,

open minded, and good hearted about your son’s happiness.  However, I think it’s time to speak to him about his fiance.  Be open, forthright, and honest about how her actions have made you FEEL.  Don’t accuse her to him of being a b**, etc. I hope that your son is aware of what a great mother you are and will take your feelings seriously and not jump on the defensive. Good Luck.

Response:

Filed under: Wedding Band Ring