Wedding Rings

student photographer

Question:

> I would assume that a PHOTOGRAPHY student would know the answers > to those and any other questions that might arise when taking > pictures for a wedding.

Tricia, I would be careful about that.  Just because someone is a photography student doesn’t mean they know anything about weddings or portraits.  I give you my business partner as an example:  He has lots of college training in photography, but all of his training was focused on b&w and fine-art applications.  When he first went into business, he knew very little about color films, what was standard in the wedding industry, how to pose, or even what went on at a wedding (his own wedding was a small affair in his parents back yard).  He became well known in his area for producing GORGEOUS black & white children’s portraits and was highly successful at that for several years, but he’d never shot a wedding.  If you had seen his portfolio as a student you would have been blown away by the work and you might have hired him.  Which would have probably been fine unless you wanted any posed shots, or a lot of color images. Of course we’ve been working weddings together for a while now, and he has much more experience and knowledge and is perfectly comfortable working them.  But as a student, he wouldn’t have been. > I was not suggesting to pick any ol’ student.  Preferably one who > is a photography/art student, and who even has some experience > shooting weddings or similar occasions.

This is a very smart idea to pick one who has wedding experience.  But again, just because he is a photography/art student (and especially because he is an art student) doesn’t guarantee that this person will know how to take wedding pics or know anything about which color film to use or how to pose large groups of people.  Make sure you’ve seen samples of his wedding work specifically.   > Sheesh–let’s not start another one of those drawn out spats over > this!  Why are these photographers and DJ’s so quick to be > offended??

I apologize on behalf of the profession, Tricia.  I agree that we are quick to become offended.  The problem (as I see it) is that we who make a career out of wedding photography really do work hard to become good at it.  We train, study, learn, gain experience, etc.  Then someone dismisses our 10 or 12 years of education w/ "any student can do as good or better of a job".  That rankles.  And even among serious photographers, wedding photogs are looked on as the bottom of the ladder.  It’s a little frustrating to constantly have your chosen profession belittled by fellow pros and potential clients alike.   Just my $0.02 on the subject. Karen Karen Simmons, Photographer       The DK Gallery   http://www.thedkgallery.com Atlanta, GA    404.233.1230

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: :> I would assume that a PHOTOGRAPHY student would know the answers :> to those and any other questions that might arise when taking :> pictures for a wedding. : :Tricia, : :I would be careful about that.  Just because someone is a photography :student doesn’t mean they know anything about weddings or portraits.  I :give you my business partner as an example:  He has lots of college :training in photography, but all of his training was focused on b&w and :fine-art applications.  When he first went into business, he knew very :little about color films, what was standard in the wedding industry, how :to pose, or even what went on at a wedding (his own wedding was a small :affair in his parents back yard).  He became well known in his area for :producing GORGEOUS black & white children’s portraits and was highly :successful at that for several years, but he’d never shot a wedding.  If :you had seen his portfolio as a student you would have been blown away :by the work and you might have hired him.  Which would have probably :been fine unless you wanted any posed shots, or a lot of color images. :Of course we’ve been working weddings together for a while now, and he :has much more experience and knowledge and is perfectly comfortable :working them.  But as a student, he wouldn’t have been. : :> I was not suggesting to pick any ol’ student.  Preferably one who :> is a photography/art student, and who even has some experience :> shooting weddings or similar occasions. : :This is a very smart idea to pick one who has wedding experience.  But :again, just because he is a photography/art student (and especially :because he is an art student) doesn’t guarantee that this person will :know how to take wedding pics or know anything about which color film to :use or how to pose large groups of people.  Make sure you’ve seen :samples of his wedding work specifically. : :> Sheesh–let’s not start another one of those drawn out spats over :> this!  Why are these photographers and DJ’s so quick to be :> offended?? : :I apologize on behalf of the profession, Tricia.  I agree that we are :quick to become offended.  The problem (as I see it) is that we who make :a career out of wedding photography really do work hard to become good :at it.  We train, study, learn, gain experience, etc.  Then someone :dismisses our 10 or 12 years of education w/ "any student can do as good r better of a job".  That rankles.  And even among serious :photographers, wedding photogs are looked on as the bottom of the :ladder.  It’s a little frustrating to constantly have your chosen :profession belittled by fellow pros and potential clients alike. : :Just my $0.02 on the subject. : :Karen : :Karen Simmons, Photographer :      The DK Gallery :http://www.thedkgallery.com :Atlanta, GA    404.233.1230 I certainly didn’t mean to offend photographers (including you) any further.  I do respect the time you spend learning, studying, etc. to be the best you can be. If you read my original posting — not the one you quoted from — you hopefully understood that I was only stating MY experience. Thankfully, my wedding is already over with, and I do not have to go through the long process of choosing a photographer — pro or student — again!  :0) Tricia (married Howard 4-12-97) remove the X to e-mail

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        Sorry if I sounded like I was offended . I assure you I certainly wasn’t and I apologize for giving you that impression. Long hours this time of the year leave me a little cranky sometimes !         I’m sure you can understand that as a professional in the field who studies and works at his craft many hours every day, that I might find that the lighthearted attitude that many people have towards their photography and particularly the photography of their wedding to be somewhat less than appealing.         The end result of couples that use non-professional photographers is as varied as it is common. The best case scenario is that everything goes well and that the bride gets an excellent value for the budget that she has to work with. The unfortunately all to common scenario is unacceptable results in composition, lighting, on the job performance (conduct which is the worst part for me !), follow through with image ordering, the utilization of "cheap" films and processing as well as albums and on an on. And unfortunately nothing seems to ever be learned from these risky decisions and their generally dissatisfying results.         Of course these are simply my opinions to which I’m entitled. However I never should have given you the opinion that I was actually offended as your comment certainly wasn’t directed specifically at me.         And again for that I apologize . Regards,                 John S. Douglas Spectrum Photographic Inc. – http://www.spectrumphoto.com Website:Portraiture, Wedding Photography, Darkroom Info.,   World Field Photographers Association, FAQ’s & More! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: >:> >:>Students really strive to do their best, because they are so >:>eager to learn.  I think they also tend to be a lot more >:>creative/artistic than professional photographers. >:> >:>We chose our photographer largely with cost in mind >: >: Perhaps the sentence above explains your previous >:opinions. Professional photographers are generally very creative >:individuals. They have to be. Otherwise they’d get burn out by >:June ! >: And do you really think somebody should be learning on >:your wedding day ? I want to try brain surgery ! Any volunteers >? >:Oh, that’s different you say ? OK. >: What’s the difference between PMC and PPF films ? How >:about explaining a 1:3 light ratio ? And who in the world is >:Monte Zucker anyway ? Perhaps we should ask a brain surgeon ?! >: >:Regards, >: John S. Douglas >:Spectrum Photographic Inc. – http://www.spectrumphoto.com >:Website:Portraiture, Wedding Photography, Darkroom Info., >:  World Field Photographers Association, FAQ’s & More! >: >I would assume that a PHOTOGRAPHY student would know the answers >to those and any other questions that might arise when taking >pictures for a wedding. >I was not suggesting to pick any ol’ student.  Preferably one who >is a photography/art student, and who even has some experience >shooting weddings or similar occasions. >I did not mean to insult the entire >wedding-photography-professionals-industry.  I’m just saying that >the student *we* knew would have done far better than the >photographer *we* chose. >Sheesh–let’s not start another one of those drawn out spats over >this!  Why are these photographers and DJ’s so quick to be >offended?? >Tricia (married Howard 4-12-97) >remove the X to e-mail

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Film and processing….but DON’T do it!  Hopefully you will be married only once.  Let someone take the photos who knows what they’re doing! — Got a problem with baseball??  MOVE TO NORWAY!!!  - NIKE – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have an opportunity to hire a student photographer for "costs"  Does anyone > have an idea what these costs are?

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: :> :>Students really strive to do their best, because they are so :>eager to learn.  I think they also tend to be a lot more :>creative/artistic than professional photographers. :> :>We chose our photographer largely with cost in mind : : Perhaps the sentence above explains your previous pinions. Professional photographers are generally very creative :individuals. They have to be. Otherwise they’d get burn out by :June ! : And do you really think somebody should be learning on :your wedding day ? I want to try brain surgery ! Any volunteers ? :Oh, that’s different you say ? OK. : What’s the difference between PMC and PPF films ? How :about explaining a 1:3 light ratio ? And who in the world is :Monte Zucker anyway ? Perhaps we should ask a brain surgeon ?! : :Regards, : John S. Douglas :Spectrum Photographic Inc. – http://www.spectrumphoto.com :Website:Portraiture, Wedding Photography, Darkroom Info., :  World Field Photographers Association, FAQ’s & More! : I would assume that a PHOTOGRAPHY student would know the answers to those and any other questions that might arise when taking pictures for a wedding. I was not suggesting to pick any ol’ student.  Preferably one who is a photography/art student, and who even has some experience shooting weddings or similar occasions. I did not mean to insult the entire wedding-photography-professionals-industry.  I’m just saying that the student *we* knew would have done far better than the photographer *we* chose. Sheesh–let’s not start another one of those drawn out spats over this!  Why are these photographers and DJ’s so quick to be offended?? Tricia (married Howard 4-12-97) remove the X to e-mail

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>1500 pictures???  All the photographers I’ve talked to have discussed taking from 2-300 >pictures.  Should I worry?  

<g>   No, you shouldn’t.  We kind of went nuts. Our goal is to shoot ~1000 images per wedding, but most photographers consider that either a lofty goal, or a wasteful one.  (To be honest, if we had packages it _would_ be wasteful, in a business-sense kind of way.).  It just happened that we had two _awesome_ weddings this last weekend (Tamara throws a _great_ party) and got a whole lot of great photo opportunities. It’s probably my fault though — I was responsible for 910 shots Saturday and 1330 on Sunday. We shoot more images than most because: 1) We’re two photographers working independently 2) We’re _very_ PJ — groupings take less than 20 minutes if everything goes correctly, and we generally stay out of the way and try and be unobtrusive.  Unobtrusive –> more oportunies for some great candids.  IMHO, people are much more natural when they’re not aware of the camera (or so many frames have been fired that they’re immune…) 3) We offer unlimited time, so we spent about 10 hours at each of the weddings last weekend (from memory). If the photographers you’re looking at are individual photographers with or without assistantants, you can expect them to shoot less.  If they’re more "traditional" in that they have more control over lighting and events, then they’ll shoot less.  If you’re booking a 4-6 hour package, they’ll shoot less.  My understanding is that 120-200 frames is about normal.   Derek Zeanah, Photographer      The DK Gallery http://www.thedkgallery.com Atlanta, GA   404.233.1230

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>Students really strive to do their best, because they are so >eager to learn.  I think they also tend to be a lot more >creative/artistic than professional photographers. >We chose our photographer largely with cost in mind

        Perhaps the sentence above explains your previous opinions. Professional photographers are generally very creative individuals. They have to be. Otherwise they’d get burn out by June !         And do you really think somebody should be learning on your wedding day ? I want to try brain surgery ! Any volunteers ? Oh, that’s different you say ? OK.         What’s the difference between PMC and PPF films ? How about explaining a 1:3 light ratio ? And who in the world is Monte Zucker anyway ? Perhaps we should ask a brain surgeon ?! Regards,                 John S. Douglas Spectrum Photographic Inc. – http://www.spectrumphoto.com Website:Portraiture, Wedding Photography, Darkroom Info.,   World Field Photographers Association, FAQ’s & More!

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> Costs would include having student level photographs to remember your > wedding by. > I have an opportunity to hire a student photographer for "costs"  Does > anyone > have an idea what these costs are?

Now, is this really adding to the discussion? I’m guessing that most people realize that a student photographer doesn’t have all the advatages that are gained by years of experience. However, everyone has to start somewhere. Although the majority of photographers have *not* done the best work of their careers when first starting out, there are a *lot of people* who will think that these photographs are *just fine.* I’ve found that the photographs are more for the people who weren’t there. You don’t need photographs to "remember the wedding." For people who can tell the difference between "good" and "bad" photographs and who think it’s worth spending enough money to be reasonably sure of getting good pictures, then a student photographer is not the best option. However, people who are quite willing to have "ok" pictures or who don’t care much about the pictures (like me, who had to be nagged by Mom for over a month to send in my list of which pictures I wanted) may be best served by one of the more economical options. The photographer at my wedding was very good, but he wasn’t at the pinnacle of technical excellence. I don’t care, since I hadn’t wanted a photographer there at all. But our families wanted pictures, so we had a photographer at the ceremony and for "family portraits." My mother and my mother-in-law are so *WAY* into the pictures, thinking they’re the greatest thing since color film. I think they’re perfectly adequate pictures, and I wouldn’t have spent a cent more in order to get better ones. It all depends on what your values and priorities are. -AmySz

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"G.E. Masana"

: :> Costs would include having student level photographs to remember your :> wedding by. :> :> > I have an opportunity to hire a student photographer for "costs"  Does :> anyone :> > have an idea what these costs are? :> > : :Several years ago I was roommates with a student photographer who made :extra money by photographing weddings. Her pictures were the best I’d ever :seen. She shot in black and white mostly and then hand tinted the :photographs. <snip> : :I would never hestitate to hire a student as long as I saw his/her :portfolio first. I hired a non-professional photographer for my own :wedding and could not have been more pleased with the result. : :Folks who want the photo-journalistic style, lots of candids, few posed :shots can get great results from students and non-professionals. Folks who :want lots of studio work, fluffy images, hazy lenses and light glinting ff the diamond ring kind of thing should not hire students or :non-professionals. : :Jenna I considered having a student from my alma mater do our wedding photos, but chickened out at the last minute, much to the delight of my relatives, fiance, and friends.  Now I wish I had gone through with it. Students really strive to do their best, because they are so eager to learn.  I think they also tend to be a lot more creative/artistic than professional photographers. We chose our photographer largely with cost in mind.  We had seen better photographers, but didn’t want to put out the money they were asking for.  By far the BEST photos I’ve seen were by a student, and he would have been even cheaper than the photographer we chose! The pictures we got back look like — well — typical wedding photos.  Nothing special.  I would have liked my wedding pictures to be something I liked to show off.  Now I stand over the viewers’ shoulder, apologizing for the poor quality of the pictures.  The people who see the pictures say they look fine, but I am disappointed. All that just to say that I would highly reccommend looking into a student photographer.  He or she will be more flexible than a pro, and will also charge less.  AND he/she will probably get great and creative photos. My LONG  $.02…. Tricia (married Howard 4-12-97) remove the X to e-mail

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Costs would include having student level photographs to remember your wedding by. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have an opportunity to hire a student photographer for "costs"  Does anyone > have an idea what these costs are?

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> Costs would include having student level photographs to remember your > wedding by. > I have an opportunity to hire a student photographer for "costs"  Does > anyone > have an idea what these costs are?

Several years ago I was roommates with a student photographer who made extra money by photographing weddings. Her pictures were the best I’d ever seen. She shot in black and white mostly and then hand tinted the photographs. She would work with the couple for months before the wedding, really getting to know them, so that when she shot their wedding she was able to capture the "them" that made them them. Whew. that was a mouthful. I would never hestitate to hire a student as long as I saw his/her portfolio first. I hired a non-professional photographer for my own wedding and could not have been more pleased with the result. Folks who want the photo-journalistic style, lots of candids, few posed shots can get great results from students and non-professionals. Folks who want lots of studio work, fluffy images, hazy lenses and light glinting off the diamond ring kind of thing should not hire students or non-professionals. Jenna

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> 1500 pictures???  All the photographers I’ve talked to have > discussed taking from 2-300 pictures.  Should I worry?

LOL!  Maria, I didn’t mean to panic you.  No, you shouldn’t worry.  Most photographers who work in a traditional style (or a mixed traditional/candid style) average anywhere from 150 – 300 images depending on the size of your wedding.   My partner and I shoot in a very photojournalistic style – we do a minimum of posed group shots and then work the rest of the day completely unobtrusively.  We also work as a team – both of us at the wedding so that we can capture images from both the bride and the groom and get a much wider variety of coverage than most photographers working alone can get.  As you might imagine, with two of us photographing, we go thru a lot more film. <g> We’ll be posting work from our latest wedddings on our web site as soon as the couples have had a chance to see their images first, if you want to check in a week or so.  You’ll see the difference in styles immediately.  Or check out http://www.storybookweddings.com and look at their online albums for an example of a style similar to ours.   Regards, Karen — Karen Simmons, Photographer       The DK Gallery   http://www.thedkgallery.com Atlanta, GA    404.233.1230

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I have an opportunity to hire a student photographer for "costs"  Does anyone have an idea what these costs are?

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>I have an opportunity to hire a student photographer for "costs"  Does anyone >have an idea what these costs are?

logically, I would assume the cost of the film, and developing and quite possibly gasoline for the car to get to the event, if you want them to dress appropriately, then a tux rental.  (which I would recomend – if I am correct on the "costs") which leads me to another thought. when they said for "costs" did you ASK what costs were? it would seem to me the most direct approach would be when that was mentioned, responding with  "and that Just my .02 _ _ _ _ Anah _ _ _ _ Going "BACKWARDS" in Tyme for a wardrobe "FUTURE" http://www.tiac.net/users/anahysia Please remove NOSPAM before replying

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>I have an opportunity to hire a student photographer for "costs"  Does anyone >have an idea what these costs are?

S/he’s probably thinking about the cost of film, which runs about $1/frame for film and processing/proofing (assume good film and professional processing).  You might also want to add in $50 for equipment rental (ask is s/he has everything they think they need and suggest a rental — a lot of people never consider this option).  Of course, you’ll need to pay for whatever finished product you’re going to want (pictures, albums, etc.) There’s a ton of info on photography on the web so I won’t add much more here.  I’d be glad to answer any particular questions you’ve got, though.  Or questions your "student photographer" has.  <g> I think you’ll be surprised by the cost of "doing it right" though.  It ain’t cheap. Derek Zeanah, Photographer      The DK Gallery http://www.thedkgallery.com Atlanta, GA   404.233.1230

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Costs vary a lot for doing photography at a wedding.  One first have to consider how many pictures you want the photographer to take and, to a certain extent, whether "pro" film is going to be used..  Then, what type of camera is being used (medium format or 35 mm).  And, of course, where the film taken to be developed. I would estimate the "average" cost, assuming that a 35 mm camera is being used, and that flash will be used quite a bit (need batteries!), to be about $200 — that will get you the prints (no albums, no enlargements, etc.)  If the tux needs to be rented… tack on a few more dollars!!! By the way, has this photographer shown you any photos he/she has taken?  (At least portraits, since you may be his/her first wedding.)  I would get a list from him on what pictures he/she plans to take (or, better yet, give him a list of what you want taken). Hope this helps. Al Lens

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        It depends. The last image that I "fixed" that an amateur took at a cost something like $500 for a single 11X14. It was the only "good" image of the whole affair. Or at least it was by the time I was done with it ! Seems somebody double exposed some film ! Regards,                 John S. Douglas Spectrum Photographic Inc. – http://www.spectrumphoto.com Website:Portraiture, Wedding Photography, Darkroom Info.,   World Field Photographers Association, FAQ’s & More! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I have an opportunity to hire a student photographer for "costs"  Does anyone >have an idea what these costs are?

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> I have an opportunity to hire a student photographer for "costs"  Does anyone > have an idea what these costs are?

I was a student photographer once! Just be sure to make clear what you want."Costs" ? I believe that is a regional question. — Rick Martin,Photographer Lt Governor, Northern District Virginia Professional Photographers Assoc http://www.rickmartin.com   Manassas,Va

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1500 pictures???  All the photographers I’ve talked to have discussed taking from 2-300 pictures.  Should I worry?   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >  > I have an opportunity to hire a student photographer for >  > "costs"  Does anyone have an idea what these costs are? >  Now, obviously how much the costs are is highly dependant on how much >  film your photographer will shoot.  We shoot anywhere from 600 – 1500 >  images at a wedding.  The wedding we photographed on Sunday netted us >  over 2000 images.  So you can see that the costs can go up pretty >  quickly.   >  – >  Karen Simmons, Photographer >        The DK Gallery   >  http://www.thedkgallery.com >  Atlanta, GA    404.233.1230

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> I have an opportunity to hire a student photographer for > "costs"  Does anyone have an idea what these costs are?

It would probably be best if you were to ask the photographer that.  It will vary from place to place and photographer to photographer.  For us to photograph a wedding the costs break down is as follows (assuming professional film and processing: professional film = $8.00 per roll professional processing = $16-$20 per roll (depending on the # of pics) equipment rental = $45.00 per day tux/gown rental (if needed) = $150.00 per day misc shipping charges = $20.00 proof album = $120.00 (for up to 400 images) Now, obviously how much the costs are is highly dependant on how much film your photographer will shoot.  We shoot anywhere from 600 – 1500 images at a wedding.  The wedding we photographed on Sunday netted us over 2000 images.  So you can see that the costs can go up pretty quickly.   Another question that comes to mind is – has this person ever photographed a wedding before?  If s/he hasn’t, they will shoot much more film in an effort to make sure not to miss anything (they should, anyway) that someone who can capture the images right off the bat.   Feel free to email if you have any questions. Karen — Karen Simmons, Photographer       The DK Gallery   http://www.thedkgallery.com Atlanta, GA    404.233.1230

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you can also contact the schools/colleges/universities in your area to see if they have anyone willing to do it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> guys, > can anyone please help us. > we need student photographer who would take our pictures during our > civil wedding ceremony to be held in a municipal court. > the wedding will take just 5 to 10 minutes so getting a mniimum of 400 > dollar package from a studio is very much. > please help.

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guys, can anyone please help us. we need student photographer who would take our pictures during our civil wedding ceremony to be held in a municipal court. the wedding will take just 5 to 10 minutes so getting a mniimum of 400 dollar package from a studio is very much. please help.

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guys, please help us. we are in need of a student photgrapher who will take pics on our civil wedding. we are in norther new jersey. please help.

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Why not just get a couple of disposable cameras (they work pretty well) and hand them out to a few friends who are at the ceremony?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> guys, > can anyone please help us. > we need student photographer who would take our pictures during our > civil wedding ceremony to be held in a municipal court. > the wedding will take just 5 to 10 minutes so getting a mniimum of 400 > dollar package from a studio is very much. > please help.

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