Wedding Rings

no ring??

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > (snippage) > I have never, ever had anyone ask why my engagement ring is not a > diamond, or why I wear it on my right hand now that we’re married > (reason: wide band, plus my wedding band is also wide). But I should > warn you that people generally don’t mess with me as far as questioning > my personal choices. Those who try, rarely try it twice. > Wende > Wende, > This might be off-topic (or not, given this group), but I’d be curious to > know how you deal with those who try to question personal choices (around > social events, not necessarily political ones), beyond the first line of > defense. I’ve had *tons* of people questioning why my e-ring is not a > diamond and why we’re doing this and that…and once I’m past the usual > platitudes, I’m at a loss for words. Suggestions? > Liz (trying hard to remain nice at W-47)

I will try to answer, but it’s difficult to reduce long-term habits to specifics! 1.  When you answer an intrusive question, don’t let your voice rise at the end of your answer. A rising inflection indicates uncertainty, and you want to convey certainty. Women tend to be conditioned to end even firm statements with that rising inflection! 2.  If you suspect you’re in company that will bug you about things, head them off by supplying the answer to the intrusive question before they can ask it. So when people ask to see your engagement ring, you can introduce it with, "Now, everyone asks me why I don’t have a diamond, but we both love sapphires so much that we knew exactly what we wanted!"  Once the obvious social question is pre-answered, intruders will often lose interest, especially since arguing with your choice of a sapphire (or whatever) now involves insulting your taste. Obviously, this doesn’t work for issues you see as *really* personal, such as when you intend to start producing HFCs. 3. Cultivate a list of bland rejoinders to the most obvious questions, to be delivered with a smile and followed by a change of subject. "We knew you’d be happy for us" is a good answer to criticisms of engagement-related choices. It’s a total non sequitur, of course, but it’s not rude. 4. Linguist Suzette Haden Elgin recommends going bland by commenting, in a neutral tone, rather than responding to their questions. So the response to "Why don’t you have a diamond?" is "Isn’t it interesting how many people think that a diamond is necessary for an engagement ring?" If you want to add a barb to that, the additional phrase "… when all you really need is to be in love" would do the job. If you want to veer into the history of the diamond engagement ring, you can probably bore them into silence. 5. A vague smile and a change of subject also works. It’s difficult to keep harping on your ring when you’ve just asked "How about those Dodgers?" If you absolutely must reply, a vague "well, we’re happy" is sufficient. I should warn you that these techniques will usually work on co-workers, but probably *not* on mothers. Close relatives see themselves as having a right to ask for details and are often harping for reasons that have as much to do with power and control as with curiousity. Wende Before you buy.

Response:

> Wende, > This might be off-topic (or not, given this group), but I’d be curious to > know how you deal with those who try to question personal choices (around > social events, not necessarily political ones), beyond the first line of > defense. I’ve had *tons* of people questioning why my e-ring is not a > diamond and why we’re doing this and that…and once I’m past the usual > platitudes, I’m at a loss for words. Suggestions? > Liz (trying hard to remain nice at W-47)

I’m not Wende, but I have found that "Why would you ask that?" or "Whatever made you think that?" or even "Because that’s what I WANTED." is a direct and off-putting response. I was given that idea by someone when I asked, years ago, how to stop my MIL’s frequent wrong "assumptions".   ("I know you always…." "I assume you will…..")  Another answer that worked was  "Please ask me if you want to know, don’t "assume" because it’s a wasted effort." This is a hard habit to get into because it feels rude, but it is certainly less rude than the original question. gloria p (P.S. Wende will be a LOT more tactful than I am.)

Response:

> I’ve had *tons* of people questioning why my e-ring is not a > diamond and why we’re doing this and that…and once I’m past > the usual platitudes, I’m at a loss for words. Suggestions?

Like Gloria … I’ve found that a straight out response of "Because that’s what we wanted." usually works well.   Why did you get a sapphire and not a diamond? Because I like sapphires and that’s what I wanted Why did you have a small wedding? Because that’s what we wanted. Why didn’t you do XYZ? Because we didn’t want to. Most people don’t know how to respond to that … because most people feel that they have to justify their reasons and go into long excuses. *grin*  If they ask "But why?" you just keep repeating "That’s what we wanted." Karen

Response:

>I used to work at Kays Jewelry

Where they sell cheap low quality crap! Ron Ng Knows!

Response:

(snippage) > I have never, ever had anyone ask why my engagement ring is not a > diamond, or why I wear it on my right hand now that we’re married > (reason: wide band, plus my wedding band is also wide). But I should > warn you that people generally don’t mess with me as far as questioning > my personal choices. Those who try, rarely try it twice. > Wende

Wende, This might be off-topic (or not, given this group), but I’d be curious to know how you deal with those who try to question personal choices (around social events, not necessarily political ones), beyond the first line of defense. I’ve had *tons* of people questioning why my e-ring is not a diamond and why we’re doing this and that…and once I’m past the usual platitudes, I’m at a loss for words. Suggestions? Liz (trying hard to remain nice at W-47)

Response:

Hi Holly, I’ve read pretty much the whole thread, and most of the responses are right on.  I’ve never really liked diamonds myself,  and my husband bought an emerald engagement ring for me.  People didn’t get as excited about my emerald as they did when looking at other women’s big honking diamonds, but I didn’t care.  It was what mattered to us that was important!  If you don’t wear rings and feel uncomfortable with them, by all means, do something else.  One couple we knew put their money into a home movie theatre … they are big, big movie buffs!  You should see their collection! That being said, if you like diamonds (not sure yet from your post if you do), there is an alternative now to DeBeers.  Not sure if you are aware of this, but in the last 5 years, Canada has started mining diamonds (the diamonds are apparently cut up in the North, too) , and the mines (and distribution) are NOT under DeBeers control. The diamonds are of exceptional quality, and unlike DeBeers, don’t have the ethical problem of having their source diamonds coming from African terrorists (I remember our foreign affairs minister going to Antwerp to talk about this problem in the diamond industry).  You can buy them in some jewellery stores here in Canada, and I think on the web, too. I know one of the mines is called Ekati (sp?).  I remember this one because they had some diamonds at a bridal show I went to, and they were displaying that all diamonds from this particular mine have a polar bear etched into the table of the diamond with a laser.  You could only see it with a microscope, and it was pretty cool! I’m not affiliated with the mine or the diamond industry in any way (nor do I play one on TV), and as I said, I don’t even like diamonds, but still, I thought it was really cool that my country now produces ‘em! Gwen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Eventually, I’ll get engaged here, so what do I want?  Ok, by my > previous paragraph, that would be pretty clear what I don’t want, but I > can’t tell if my cynicism is just for the moment at this time of night > or what I actully don’t want.  I’m pretty traditional in most ways, and > bought the whole deBeers line so completely that it feels weird to > question wanting a ring.  I’ve also been conditioned by our culture, > that putting money down on something legitimizes it (ring as > relationship security deposit? – ew). My question for the group is, > Anyone out there without an e-ring, that does or does not regret that > decision?  Is it a bother to explain ringlessness to others?  It’s also > a pet peeve when people pity me for not having something I don’t want. > Just feed me some anecdotes about ringless life, I’d be interested. > Before you buy.

Response:

> Although we’re all hit over the head with the 4C’s and the importance of > quality, there’s something to be said for just buying a nice ring in > a comfortable price range and calling it a day. If you look at > semi-precious stones, prices are quite low (at least compared to > diamonds) and people worry less about quality than with diamonds > (probably because it’s so much less of an investment). Depending on your > tastes, you can get something very nice for $50-$150 with a department > store visit.

I used to work at Kays Jewelry and I have seen some gorgeous CZ’s set in 14k gold that you couldnt tell were fake unless you were a professional and they usually looked better than some of the real ones.  If you buy the lower end of diamonds then you are basically buying frozen spit. They look horrible and have loads of imperfections.  I think that if you and your bride are comfortable with CZ’s or other stones than by all means go for it.  YOu can purchase the stone seperate and then find a beautiful setting to put it in.  AFter youve been married for a while noone really cares what you have on your finger.  I dont even wear mine half the time because its so uncomfortable for me to wear jewelry now.   Kim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There’s also the joys of Nordstrom’s cubic zirconian section — $20 or > so for all the sparkle you could want. It takes a certain attitude of > post-modern irony to embrace one of these rings as an engagement ring — > on the other hand, you don’t have to worry about (a) insuring it or (b) > comments from people about "why don’t you have a diamond?" > Eventually, I’ll get engaged here, so what do I want?  Ok, by my > previous paragraph, that would be pretty clear what I don’t want, but > I > can’t tell if my cynicism is just for the moment at this time of night > or what I actully don’t want. > It’s not unusual for bright, critical brides to go through stages like > this. You want to be smart and savvy, and there’s also the pull of > tradition. Sometimes it’s best to just wait and see how your attitudes > develop. > I’ve also been conditioned by our culture, > that putting money down on something legitimizes it (ring as > relationship security deposit? – ew). My question for the group is, > Anyone out there without an e-ring, that does or does not regret that > decision?  Is it a bother to explain ringlessness to others?  It’s > also > a pet peeve when people pity me for not having something I don’t want. > I originally did not have an e-ring, and no one in real life asked about > it one way or the other. It was in newsgroup land where I felt it > necessary to justify my decision. This may be because so many of my > friends are rabid social justice types who would jump up and down > denouncing deBeers if anyone gave them an opening. > When I started kind of wanting a ring — because it’s sometimes > depressing to always be utilitarian and sensible — I still didn’t want > a diamond. My engagement ring is an amethyst, set flat with the band > because I work with my hands a lot, and shopping for it was not anywhere > near the trouble people go through for a diamond. Basically, my > now-husband went to a jewelry store where he had a gift certificate for > good work performance, asked to see rings that met his understanding of > my tastes, resisted pressure to add little diamonds on the side, and was > done in under an hour, including time to forget where he’d parked. > I have never, ever had anyone ask why my engagement ring is not a > diamond, or why I wear it on my right hand now that we’re married > (reason: wide band, plus my wedding band is also wide). But I should > warn you that people generally don’t mess with me as far as questioning > my personal choices. Those who try, rarely try it twice. > If you’re going to do something unconventional, be sure that you’re > comfortable carrying it off with complete confidence, including *not* > justifying your decision — just saying, "This is what we liked — isn’t > it gorgeous?" If you don’t like putting on a bold front, you might be > better off with a chic fake, where you can laugh in your sleeve about > the people who judge only by rock size and who envy you! > Wende > Before you buy.

Response:

> I’ve read up on here long enough to know that doing the whole wedding > process is really 3 credit course of sorts: etiquette, the 4 c’s, how > to buy stuff you’ll never buy again, how to juggle being a host and > guest of honor, etc.  But most people seem to have outside lives. > Reading up on etiquitte takes priority: I’m still cringing because I > didn’t RSVP to a wedding back when I was 19 and didn’t realize.  But is > taking time to get educated on jewelry so important?  What I’m saying > is I feel very grumpy right now thinking about having to go through a > ring shopping process.

Reasonably proper etiquette helps make guests comfortable and happy (satisfying your role as host). Having a really splendid engagement ring can *only* please you and your fiance — so if the shopping process *doesn’t* please you, there’s no reason to get involved in it. Although we’re all hit over the head with the 4C’s and the importance of quality, there’s something to be said for just buying a nice ring in a comfortable price range and calling it a day. If you look at semi-precious stones, prices are quite low (at least compared to diamonds) and people worry less about quality than with diamonds (probably because it’s so much less of an investment). Depending on your tastes, you can get something very nice for $50-$150 with a department store visit. There’s also the joys of Nordstrom’s cubic zirconian section — $20 or so for all the sparkle you could want. It takes a certain attitude of post-modern irony to embrace one of these rings as an engagement ring — on the other hand, you don’t have to worry about (a) insuring it or (b) comments from people about "why don’t you have a diamond?" > Eventually, I’ll get engaged here, so what do I want?  Ok, by my > previous paragraph, that would be pretty clear what I don’t want, but I > can’t tell if my cynicism is just for the moment at this time of night > or what I actully don’t want.

It’s not unusual for bright, critical brides to go through stages like this. You want to be smart and savvy, and there’s also the pull of tradition. Sometimes it’s best to just wait and see how your attitudes develop. > I’ve also been conditioned by our culture, > that putting money down on something legitimizes it (ring as > relationship security deposit? – ew). My question for the group is, > Anyone out there without an e-ring, that does or does not regret that > decision?  Is it a bother to explain ringlessness to others?  It’s also > a pet peeve when people pity me for not having something I don’t want.

I originally did not have an e-ring, and no one in real life asked about it one way or the other. It was in newsgroup land where I felt it necessary to justify my decision. This may be because so many of my friends are rabid social justice types who would jump up and down denouncing deBeers if anyone gave them an opening. When I started kind of wanting a ring — because it’s sometimes depressing to always be utilitarian and sensible — I still didn’t want a diamond. My engagement ring is an amethyst, set flat with the band because I work with my hands a lot, and shopping for it was not anywhere near the trouble people go through for a diamond. Basically, my now-husband went to a jewelry store where he had a gift certificate for good work performance, asked to see rings that met his understanding of my tastes, resisted pressure to add little diamonds on the side, and was done in under an hour, including time to forget where he’d parked. I have never, ever had anyone ask why my engagement ring is not a diamond, or why I wear it on my right hand now that we’re married (reason: wide band, plus my wedding band is also wide). But I should warn you that people generally don’t mess with me as far as questioning my personal choices. Those who try, rarely try it twice. If you’re going to do something unconventional, be sure that you’re comfortable carrying it off with complete confidence, including *not* justifying your decision — just saying, "This is what we liked — isn’t it gorgeous?" If you don’t like putting on a bold front, you might be better off with a chic fake, where you can laugh in your sleeve about the people who judge only by rock size and who envy you! Wende Before you buy.

Response:

Maybe you could get another kind of jewelry ie necklace. One of my coworkers was given a wedding ring that she didn’t really like, so she had it pounded into a  charm for a necklace and some earrings.Maybe you could do one of those necklaces with your pics engraved on it. Those are cool Andrea

Response:

>>I feel like if there isn’t a ring investment, there isn’t an

investment in the engagement,<< I’m assuming that, by even posing the initial question, you don’t *really* feel that way … do you? The investment in the engagement came from the (presumably) years of love that the two of you have shared to get to the point where you want to spend your lives together.  What ring you get, if you get one at all, doesn’t matter in the least … and anyone with half a head on their shoulders should realize that. Mary to Phil 6/23/2001

Response:

> The standard question when I mention I’m engaged is "when are you getting > your ring?" Oddly enough, I get more puzzled looks from men than women > when I tell them I didn’t want one. No one has given me any grief over it > (or at least no one whose opinion I care about), but a couple of our > friends tease Erik about it. They’re just joking, but he still feels some > combination of peer pressure and guilt (because almost all of the debt is > his), to the point of researching prices. So make sure your fiance > understands that you well and truly do not want that ring, because he may > get more comments about it than you do.

Interesting.  This reminds me of the question of "When are you going to ’start a family’?" My DH got annoyed by that question, and replied to all questioners that "Our family *started* on our wedding day."  We have added to it along the way, but I agree.  We were a family of two (and cats!) for a long time. Sometimes, "when" is an awfully nosey question. > Just say you didn’t want a ring. If anyone tries to pity you, you can get > self-righteous ("I don’t support price-fixing cartels!") or dreamy-eyed > ("Oh, we’ll be able to buy our house/start our family sooner, that’s so > much more wonderful than some silly ring…") or sarcastic ("Oh, we’re > much more traditional than that. Joey is delivering thirty head of cattle > to my father this weekend.") or whatever reaction suits your personality > best. My response: "Do you know what kind of kick-ass computer we could > get for that kind of money?" In our social and professional circles, > that’s considered a perfectly logical and unquestioned reason.

Readily understood here! — aMAZon "It’s never too late to have a happy childhood."

Response:

> > Was it Thoreau who said "beware of enterprises requiring new > clothes?" >     Close!  It was actually Ralph Waldo Emerson! >     ~~Rachael, the chick with the Trivial Pursuit Brain….

        No kidding!  I knew it was one of the two, but the old brain ain’t what it used to be  Thanks for the correct attribution. Ericka

Response:

> Was it Thoreau who said "beware of enterprises requiring new > clothes?"

    Close!  It was actually Ralph Waldo Emerson!     ~~Rachael, the chick with the Trivial Pursuit Brain….

Response:

>You sound like us, we are in computer fields also.  And your three >responses to those who ask about a ring, are responses I’d enjoy >delivering.  A major concern you raise is valid here: my bf is slightly >more traditional than I am, and while I might look smart and non- >traditional for not wanting a ring, he could appear unromantic or cheap >for not giving one.  He doesn’t need that.

I’ve used the cattle response with people who won’t let it drop after "I didn’t want a ring." It confuses them long enough for me to change the topic. My fiance isn’t exactly traditional, but he does worry that my ringless finger reflects more on his wishes than mine. Ironically, I’m the thrifty one in the relationship. >That engagement computer idea sounds interesting, and would be an easy >sell to my computer geek bf.  I was against the idea at first, because >what kind of relationship symbol is a piece of equipment that is >obsolete so quickly?  But I suppose an engagement is a planned >obsolescent state of relationship just like a computer.  The weddings >rings are the relationship symbol from the wedding onwards. >Interesting.

At least it does become a non-issue when you’re married. I’d much rather focus on beautiful wedding bands, and I’ve noticed that my married female friends (the ones who like to tease Erik about the lack of ring) never wear their engagement rings anyway! We’re thinking about channel-set sapphires in platinum or white gold for my band, which ought to shut everyone up immediately. I love your analogy for planned obsolescence, might have to use that one!

Response:

>Just say you didn’t want a ring. If anyone tries to pity you, you can get >self-righteous ("I don’t support price-fixing cartels!") or dreamy-eyed >("Oh, we’ll be able to buy our house/start our family sooner, that’s so >much more wonderful than some silly ring…") or sarcastic ("Oh, we’re >much more traditional than that. Joey is delivering thirty head of cattle >to my father this weekend.") or whatever reaction suits your personality >best. My response: "Do you know what kind of kick-ass computer we could >get for that kind of money?" In our social and professional circles, >that’s considered a perfectly logical and unquestioned reason.

Oh wow.   Those responses (all of them) are GREAT!!  Especially the cattle or computer one.  Too funny.  :) Jen (to Rob, April 29, 2001) — Windows is to real operating systems as the Discworld is to reality.   –  Jay Mottern, a.t-s.r http://home.austin.rr.com/robandjen/

Response:

> > hard for me to imagine that someone is ready to marry if he or she > can’t figure out what an appropriate token and method of formalizing > the relationship might be. > Really?  An appropriate token should be obvious?

        Well, not necessarily *obvious*–just that it’s one of those things that’s important to get *right*, so if you have to spend some extra time figuring it out (on either end), it’s important to spend that time and go through the process deliberately and meaningfully for the two of you, whatever that takes.  If she wants a diamond solitaire, whew!  The job just got easy!  If she wants something else, well, might take some more effort and creativity.  If she has no clue what she wants, he’s got a tall order to fill!  But whatever it is, it’s just one of those things ya gotta get right to get things off on the right foot. > I think of it more > as an entry/exit barrier.  In other words, a ring (or anything else > that formalizes the relationship that requires some effort) says > "I’m willing to work for this." > Exactly.  I think that is what I was getting at.  My brother got > engaged and married to someone he just met last year.  He did not give > her a ring for their 3 month engagement, but they weren’t traditional > in a few respects, no wedding reception, etc.  I want to do it all, but > I’m just figuring if the ring is part of it all for me.  Anyway, he > gave her a ring off of a koosh ball when he proposed.  At the time I > thought that was tacky, and you just pointed out why – how do you > legitimize a relationship with something you could have picked up out > of the seat cushions of your couch. I thought that trivialized the > social contract you refer to.

        It’s one of those things that is so very personal, but it does fill a social role too.  It may be shallow of other people to look at the lack of a ring and wonder if the two of you are really committed to each other, but there is some sense of that. BUT…if you don’t have a ring, but it is obvious in every other sense in your relationship that there is real commitment, then people will focus less on the ring.  If there is nothing people can point at to see the evidence of the commitment, people will take the lack of a ring as evidence that there is no real commitment.  Again, a very shallow analysis on the surface, but on the other hand, real commitment *does* tend to leave traces people can see.  For instance, in your brother’s case, if they’d been together for five years or something, you might have had a very different impression than you did given that they’d been together for such a short time.  Now, obviously, we all know that time spent together doesn’t necessarily indicate depth of commitment.  (In fact, sometimes I wonder if it’s the couples who’ve been together forever without making a formal commitment who are evidencing some potential lack  Still, when you look at your brother’s relationship during the engagement, what is it that you saw that said they were both in it for the long haul?  What said that this was something they were both willing to work at?  Of course, what really matters is what *they* saw in each other, but making an engagement is a public step, so naturally others are going to observe and have thoughts about it.  If appearances matter to you (and they matter to most of us to some degree, even if we’re very secure in ourselves, because sometimes it’s just nice not to have to keep explaining things to others!), you might want to think how things appear to others to see if you can make appearances line up with your perception of reality. > It’s ingrained in me that you have to work and invest in important > things.  I feel like if there isn’t a ring investment, there isn’t an > investment in the engagement, thanks deBeers.  

        I think it’s good for you to recognize what’s driving these impressions, and to examine your motives.  That’s always a good thing.  But in the end, it’s not wrong to say your gut just says you want a ring on your finger (and if you’re really annoyed at deBeers, just don’t get a diamond or to say that your gut doesn’t give a hoot about a ring and you’d rather put your money elsewhere. > I’m basically posting > here to investigate my motives.  I’ve never had a diamond, so I don’t > know if I want one, it is just a completely new thing.  I just feel > uncomfortable, particularly as a grad student, owning something > valuable that I’m not completely sure that I want.  I think carefully > before purchasing things that are $50 sometimes.  One thing I’m afraid > of is that if I don’t have one, and say I don’t want one, I’d have to > convince others and myself, that I actually don’t want one, it not just > a case of sour grapes, where we can’t afford everything in the world, > and the ring was the first to go….not just that i don’t want one.  I > am just confused about what I want, and want to have it figured out > before I get engaged.  I don’t want to get engaged today, tomorrow, or > next week here, so I can sleep on it.

        A good plan, I imagine  Also, it’s probably something that will shift with time and circumstance.  At some point, when the time is right and you’re ready for the actual engagement, it may come to you how you want to symbolize your commitment.  You can also take your time to look at various other options in rings or other tokens that might suit your fancy.  I’m not much of a diamond solitaire person myself, so that never held my interest much.  But I love my rings very much.  They suit my personality and my lifestyle and they symbolize our commitment to each other in a way that we appreciate. > as a side note, "legitimization" as a social term refers to the > enforcement of normative behavior.  Since engagement rings *are* > normative behavior in traditional US society today, the giving of > a ring *does* fulfill a legitimization role. > Yes, that’s it!  That’s what I’m afraid of, not the lack of a ring, but > the lack of a legitimization.  I mostly like the ring tradition, > because at least one party has to invest in the relationship, and if > they are young without money, then one has to work hard and save money > for it, necessitating some time for both to contemplate the decision > and realizing what they are doing.  A ring works well for that.  That’s > why I need some sort of permission here: really, can I get an > engagement without paying for it, so to speak.  That is my issue.

        I think it’s easy to get hung up on the cost of the ring.  You don’t *have* to go with a diamond or two months’ salary or any such nonsense.  Try thinking outside the box a bit.  Say you like the idea of a ring and what it symbolizes.  You might find that there’s a sort of ring that has *more* symbolic value to you, even if it doesn’t cost as much as a huge, high quality diamond would.  If it’s the thought of spending a fortune on a diamond that makes the whole thing seem silly to you, don’t go there.  The way I see it, it’s just money, and money is, essentially, time.  If you’re willing to wait, you can have any ring you want and still meet your other financial goals as well.  I don’t see anything morally wrong with wearing a honking big diamond on your finger as long as you’re managing your other obligations and that’s what tickles your fancy. In our case, though, I was more attracted to a ring that had more symbolism to me personally.  We chose Claddagh rings (oooh, will the Claddagh guy respond with his usual diatribe???) and used the heart and hands (love and friendship) parts as the engagement rings– for BOTH of us, with the heart being a ruby symbolizing love and passion.  (Later, we used the crowns on a separate thin band, symbolizing loyalty, with tiny diamonds across the bottom of the crown, representing enduring love, as our wedding rings.) Anyway…by the time we were done, we had rings that had a more personal meaning to us, in addition to fulfilling the traditional role of an engagement ring, and really, at that point I don’t think the cost involved mattered much because there was no way for it to devolve into one of those bigger diamond = bigger love/commitment/whatever things (I hate that).  Most people don’t have any idea how much our rings cost in relation to your standard diamond solitaire, and I rather like that Might be more, might be less, but they’ll never know!  (Well, unless they’re pretty adept at pricing gemstones and custom jewelry, but for the average viewer, it totally avoids the issue of is-mine-bigger-than-yours         What I’m trying to say is that we were aware of the normative behavior, but I wasn’t particularly into diamond solitaires, so we crafted something that was both meaningful to *us* and made a nod toward tradition.  At that point, the cost and the effort of selecting stones, finding a jeweler, participating in the design, and so on and so forth became non-issues.  We were really excited about it, and all those obstacles became things we went through willingly and happily. > The question, however, > is whether anything else can do the trick equally well, and, depending > on the two individuals involved, often something can. > Okay. So I want something else that is not a ring.  I’ll sleep on it. > Another issue of the ring is that bf (and myself too) would probably > like me to wear something that announced ‘taken’, hmph.

        Hey, I figure if it’s good for the goose, it’s good for the gander–DH has both an engagement and wedding ring of his own to wear, just like mine > bother me.  If you announce an engagement, the first question people > will ask is if they can see your ring.  You just tell them you’ve > Ugh, I know, I’ve asked to see other people’s rings.  Maybe I will > conform yet.  I don’t know.

        Don’t think of it as an issue of conforming vs. not conforming. Think of it as an exercise in finding what is meaningful to the two of you … read more »

Response:

You sound like us, we are in computer fields also.  And your three responses to those who ask about a ring, are responses I’d enjoy delivering.  A major concern you raise is valid here: my bf is slightly more traditional than I am, and while I might look smart and non- traditional for not wanting a ring, he could appear unromantic or cheap for not giving one.  He doesn’t need that. That engagement computer idea sounds interesting, and would be an easy sell to my computer geek bf.  I was against the idea at first, because what kind of relationship symbol is a piece of equipment that is obsolete so quickly?  But I suppose an engagement is a planned obsolescent state of relationship just like a computer.  The weddings rings are the relationship symbol from the wedding onwards. Interesting. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Erik and I got engaged last New Year’s Eve. We had discussed the ring > issue, and decided against getting one. I don’t ordinarily wear rings > (although we will both wear wedding bands), and neither of us particularly > wanted to support DeBeers and its invented "tradition" of the diamond > engagement ring. Diamonds are pretty, but getting rid of as much debt as > possible before marriage is vastly more important to us than spending > $500-$3000 on a bit of compressed carbon! > The standard question when I mention I’m engaged is "when are you getting > your ring?" Oddly enough, I get more puzzled looks from men than women > when I tell them I didn’t want one. No one has given me any grief over it > (or at least no one whose opinion I care about), but a couple of our > friends tease Erik about it. They’re just joking, but he still feels some > combination of peer pressure and guilt (because almost all of the debt is > his), to the point of researching prices. So make sure your fiance > understands that you well and truly do not want that ring, because he may > get more comments about it than you do. > Luckily we don’t have any family pressure about rings or any other aspect > of the wedding (his father is halfway across the country, his mother lives > in Europe, my mother is deceased – but she would have NOT been happy with > the lack of ring and the planned elopement – and my father is just pleased > that I’m marrying a nice computer geek). > Just say you didn’t want a ring. If anyone tries to pity you, you can get > self-righteous ("I don’t support price-fixing cartels!") or dreamy- eyed > ("Oh, we’ll be able to buy our house/start our family sooner, that’s so > much more wonderful than some silly ring…") or sarcastic ("Oh, we’re > much more traditional than that. Joey is delivering thirty head of cattle > to my father this weekend.") or whatever reaction suits your personality > best. My response: "Do you know what kind of kick-ass computer we could > get for that kind of money?" In our social and professional circles, > that’s considered a perfectly logical and unquestioned reason.

Before you buy.

Response:

> I’m pretty traditional in most ways, and bought the whole deBeers > line so completely that it feels weird to question wanting a ring. > Anyone out there without an e-ring, that does or does not regret > that decision?  Is it a bother to explain ringlessness to others?

Holly, I wouldn’t worry about not wanting an engagement ring.  I didn’t want one because my mother never had one, so I never thought anything about them being required.  The only reason I have one is because Kevin wanted to give me one and it made him happy.  So we settled on a really nice square cut sapphire (real, not lab created), set in 14k gold, with 4 small diamonds (two on either side of the sapphire) as my ring.  I love it and could care less how much it cost or where he got it.  I don’t regret having it, but then again, I wouldn’t have cared if I had never gotten it.   My best friend also never had an engagement ring, they saved to put their money on a really nice set of wedding rings that they would wear always.   If you don’t wear a lot of jewelry, maybe you could compromise with an engagement gift of some kind that’s special to the two of you.  My friend above got an engagement guitar (*grin*).  My mother got a string of pearls and a trip to Taiwan.   Hope that helps some. Karen

Response:

>Anyone out there without an e-ring, that does or does not regret that >decision?  Is it a bother to explain ringlessness to others?  It’s also >a pet peeve when people pity me for not having something I don’t want. >Just feed me some anecdotes about ringless life, I’d be interested.

Erik and I got engaged last New Year’s Eve. We had discussed the ring issue, and decided against getting one. I don’t ordinarily wear rings (although we will both wear wedding bands), and neither of us particularly wanted to support DeBeers and its invented "tradition" of the diamond engagement ring. Diamonds are pretty, but getting rid of as much debt as possible before marriage is vastly more important to us than spending $500-$3000 on a bit of compressed carbon! The standard question when I mention I’m engaged is "when are you getting your ring?" Oddly enough, I get more puzzled looks from men than women when I tell them I didn’t want one. No one has given me any grief over it (or at least no one whose opinion I care about), but a couple of our friends tease Erik about it. They’re just joking, but he still feels some combination of peer pressure and guilt (because almost all of the debt is his), to the point of researching prices. So make sure your fiance understands that you well and truly do not want that ring, because he may get more comments about it than you do. Luckily we don’t have any family pressure about rings or any other aspect of the wedding (his father is halfway across the country, his mother lives in Europe, my mother is deceased – but she would have NOT been happy with the lack of ring and the planned elopement – and my father is just pleased that I’m marrying a nice computer geek). Just say you didn’t want a ring. If anyone tries to pity you, you can get self-righteous ("I don’t support price-fixing cartels!") or dreamy-eyed ("Oh, we’ll be able to buy our house/start our family sooner, that’s so much more wonderful than some silly ring…") or sarcastic ("Oh, we’re much more traditional than that. Joey is delivering thirty head of cattle to my father this weekend.") or whatever reaction suits your personality best. My response: "Do you know what kind of kick-ass computer we could get for that kind of money?" In our social and professional circles, that’s considered a perfectly logical and unquestioned reason.

Response:

> hard for me to imagine that someone is ready to marry if he or she > can’t figure out what an appropriate token and method of formalizing > the relationship might be.

Really?  An appropriate token should be obvious? Sure, it sometimes requires a certain > amount of effort, but so does much of married life!

True! Think of > it as good practice for a lifetime of appropriately celebrating > birthdays, anniversaries, and other gift-giving holidays

yeah, we already celebrate those holidays. >    As someone who studies social behaviors,

I know, I’ve found some of your posts really fascinating. I think of it more > as an entry/exit barrier.  In other words, a ring (or anything else > that formalizes the relationship that requires some effort) says > "I’m willing to work for this."

Exactly.  I think that is what I was getting at.  My brother got engaged and married to someone he just met last year.  He did not give her a ring for their 3 month engagement, but they weren’t traditional in a few respects, no wedding reception, etc.  I want to do it all, but I’m just figuring if the ring is part of it all for me.  Anyway, he gave her a ring off of a koosh ball when he proposed.  At the time I thought that was tacky, and you just pointed out why – how do you legitimize a relationship with something you could have picked up out of the seat cushions of your couch. I thought that trivialized the social contract you refer to. It’s ingrained in me that you have to work and invest in important things.  I feel like if there isn’t a ring investment, there isn’t an investment in the engagement, thanks deBeers.  I’m basically posting here to investigate my motives.  I’ve never had a diamond, so I don’t know if I want one, it is just a completely new thing.  I just feel uncomfortable, particularly as a grad student, owning something valuable that I’m not completely sure that I want.  I think carefully before purchasing things that are $50 sometimes.  One thing I’m afraid of is that if I don’t have one, and say I don’t want one, I’d have to convince others and myself, that I actually don’t want one, it not just a case of sour grapes, where we can’t afford everything in the world, and the ring was the first to go….not just that i don’t want one.  I am just confused about what I want, and want to have it figured out before I get engaged.  I don’t want to get engaged today, tomorrow, or next week here, so I can sleep on it. > as a side note, "legitimization" as a social term refers to the > enforcement of normative behavior.  Since engagement rings *are* > normative behavior in traditional US society today, the giving of > a ring *does* fulfill a legitimization role.

Yes, that’s it!  That’s what I’m afraid of, not the lack of a ring, but the lack of a legitimization.  I mostly like the ring tradition, because at least one party has to invest in the relationship, and if they are young without money, then one has to work hard and save money for it, necessitating some time for both to contemplate the decision and realizing what they are doing.  A ring works well for that.  That’s why I need some sort of permission here: really, can I get an engagement without paying for it, so to speak.  That is my issue. The question, however, > is whether anything else can do the trick equally well, and, depending > on the two individuals involved, often something can.

Okay. So I want something else that is not a ring.  I’ll sleep on it. Another issue of the ring is that bf (and myself too) would probably like me to wear something that announced ‘taken’, hmph. > bother me.  If you announce an engagement, the first question people > will ask is if they can see your ring.  You just tell them you’ve

Ugh, I know, I’ve asked to see other people’s rings.  Maybe I will conform yet.  I don’t know. Thanks for the reply! Holly Before you buy.

Response:

> I’ve read up on here long enough to know that doing the whole wedding > process is really 3 credit course of sorts: etiquette, the 4 c’s, how > to buy stuff you’ll never buy again,

        Was it Thoreau who said "beware of enterprises requiring new clothes?" > how to juggle being a host and > guest of honor, etc.  But most people seem to have outside lives. > Reading up on etiquitte takes priority: I’m still cringing because I > didn’t RSVP to a wedding back when I was 19 and didn’t realize.  But is > taking time to get educated on jewelry so important?  What I’m saying > is I feel very grumpy right now thinking about having to go through a > ring shopping process.  Regardless of whose pocket it comes from, it’s > money.  Educating yourself on diamonds, (when are you going to have to > buy one again?),

        Well, if you *like* diamonds, you probably *will* be buying more someday.  And if you *don’t* like diamonds, seems to me it’s a bit silly to buy one in the first place. > saving up, getting it, should it be a surprise, will > she like it,

        Those I don’t see the point in worrying about too much.  It’s hard for me to imagine that someone is ready to marry if he or she can’t figure out what an appropriate token and method of formalizing the relationship might be.  Sure, it sometimes requires a certain amount of effort, but so does much of married life!  Think of it as good practice for a lifetime of appropriately celebrating birthdays, anniversaries, and other gift-giving holidays > (can she wear it daily if she would never think of > carrying the cash equivalent of that ring in her back pocket daily?) > blah, blah, blah.  A wedding purchase on the other hand (hehe) seems > like more fun than work. > Eventually, I’ll get engaged here, so what do I want?  Ok, by my > previous paragraph, that would be pretty clear what I don’t want, but I > can’t tell if my cynicism is just for the moment at this time of night > or what I actully don’t want.  I’m pretty traditional in most ways, and > bought the whole deBeers line so completely that it feels weird to > question wanting a ring.  

        I suppose it should be said that you don’t *have* to have a diamond engagement ring.  I sure don’t, and am perfectly happy with that.  I’m just not a diamond person, for whatever reason, though I like lots of other sparkly things > I’ve also been conditioned by our culture, > that putting money down on something legitimizes it (ring as > relationship security deposit? – ew).

        As someone who studies social behaviors, I think of it more as an entry/exit barrier.  In other words, a ring (or anything else that formalizes the relationship that requires some effort) says "I’m willing to work for this."  It’s obviously not necessary, as people get engaged without rings all the time, and it’s mostly a social contract between two individuals anyway, so whatever seems legitimate to them in such a personal situation is just fine.  Also, as a side note, "legitimization" as a social term refers to the enforcement of normative behavior.  Since engagement rings *are* normative behavior in traditional US society today, the giving of a ring *does* fulfill a legitimization role.  The question, however, is whether anything else can do the trick equally well, and, depending on the two individuals involved, often something can. > My question for the group is, > Anyone out there without an e-ring, that does or does not regret that > decision?  Is it a bother to explain ringlessness to others?  It’s also > a pet peeve when people pity me for not having something I don’t want. > Just feed me some anecdotes about ringless life, I’d be interested.

        Look, you really have to just sit down and figure out what you’re comfortable with and tell everyone else to cope, if necessary.  You will get some glances on occasion, but just shrug them off.  I do have rings, but they’re not the traditional diamond solitaire and gold band.  Some people who don’t know me are confused about whether or not they’re wedding rings.  On top of that, I haven’t been able to wear my rings for a while.  Apparently, pregnancy gave me differently shaped fingers, and I’m still working on getting back to a weight I want to maintain before figuring out whether the change is permanent regardless of weight or not (I’m back below a weight where the rings used to fit, but they still don’t fit, yet I’m still not where I want to be and I don’t want to put the rings through the stress of resizing until I’m where I want to be.)  Anyway, the upshot of all this is that I haven’t worn my rings in a few years  You can be sure that I get looks on occasion with two kids and bare hands (particularly when I was pregnant–apparently, scanning the left ring finger is de rigeur when encountering a pregnant woman).  I refuse to allow myself to get worked up over something like that, so it doesn’t particularly bother me.  If you announce an engagement, the first question people will ask is if they can see your ring.  You just tell them you’ve decided not to have a ring (or you show them your non-traditional ring, or whatever) and you ignore any negative comments if you get them.  When it comes to things that are *purely* personal preferences, and you decide to do something outside the norm, you just have to grow a thick skin about it.  Some people will think you’re weird, and some may make negative comments, but I suppose that just comes with the territory.  The main thing is usually to avoid lengthy explanations. It’s not their business anyway (assuming we’re talking about people who aren’t close friends and family), so something along the lines of "we decided not to do that" should do the trick. Good luck whichever way you go, Ericka

Response:

Dear Holly, DH and I got married while we were still in college (seniors with two terms to go, there was a war on, with a real likelihood of his being drafted, etc. etc.) We got engaged (i.e. we started planning our wedding) without an "engagement " ring. He had given me a pearl ring that I wore on my left hand a couple of years earlier, and we were "pinned" for more than 2 of the three and a half years we dated. Many of our friends were getting married at the same time (similar circumstances) and also did not have "engagement" rings. I don’t think that any of us felt any less "engaged." (Actually, I can remember only one or two of my female friends–not close friends–sporting flashy diamonds, but this was a different time, different place!) For our tenth anniversary/Christmas, DH and I selected a sapphire and diamond ring and a channels set diamond band that I wore together for several years. About 10 months ago, I slipped the sapphire into my jewelry box, as much of my current job involves work that could cause damage to the ring. I still wear the diamond band. My only other "regular" jewelry is my watch. My ears are pierced, but I seldom remember (at 5 am when I’m dressing for work) to put earrings in. Ann — 00000000 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello, folks, I lurk off and on here.  I like this group, because it’s > sort of a chance to get my girl talk fix, I am in a male populated > field. > I’ve always assumed engagements went with rings, but lately I’ve been > questioning that notion. I learned about the deBeers thing, and that > pi**ed me off.  And I don’t normally wear jewelry at all, I never > bothered to get my ears pierced, and don’t really know anything about > jewelry.  FH and I would of course wear wedding rings for symbolism and > to display marital status. > I’ve read up on here long enough to know that doing the whole wedding > process is really 3 credit course of sorts: etiquette, the 4 c’s, how > to buy stuff you’ll never buy again, how to juggle being a host and > guest of honor, etc.  But most people seem to have outside lives. > Reading up on etiquitte takes priority: I’m still cringing because I > didn’t RSVP to a wedding back when I was 19 and didn’t realize.  But is > taking time to get educated on jewelry so important?  What I’m saying > is I feel very grumpy right now thinking about having to go through a > ring shopping process.  Regardless of whose pocket it comes from, it’s > money.  Educating yourself on diamonds, (when are you going to have to > buy one again?), saving up, getting it, should it be a surprise, will > she like it, (can she wear it daily if she would never think of > carrying the cash equivalent of that ring in her back pocket daily?) > blah, blah, blah.  A wedding purchase on the other hand (hehe) seems > like more fun than work. > Eventually, I’ll get engaged here, so what do I want?  Ok, by my > previous paragraph, that would be pretty clear what I don’t want, but I > can’t tell if my cynicism is just for the moment at this time of night > or what I actully don’t want.  I’m pretty traditional in most ways, and > bought the whole deBeers line so completely that it feels weird to > question wanting a ring.  I’ve also been conditioned by our culture, > that putting money down on something legitimizes it (ring as > relationship security deposit? – ew). My question for the group is, > Anyone out there without an e-ring, that does or does not regret that > decision?  Is it a bother to explain ringlessness to others?  It’s also > a pet peeve when people pity me for not having something I don’t want. > Just feed me some anecdotes about ringless life, I’d be interested. > Before you buy.

Response:

> . My question for the group is, > Anyone out there without an e-ring, that does or does not regret that > decision?

I’m ringless.  For about 10 minutes over a year ago I wanted a ring, but I realized then that it was more a matter of wanting some outside sign of how committed we were to show outsiders, when I already knew in my heart. Rather than spending money on a ring, we have our house, we’re paying for our own wedding, and we’re saving for a variety of other stuff, so fiscally, it works out Just Fine. I haven’t wore a ring of any kind since I was roughly 10 years old. I find them uncomfortable, and I would probably forget it. BTW, we’re also not going with wedding rings, because neither of us like rings. On the other hand, we haven’t done the big announcement yet; we’ve told our parents and told them to not be all big and announcing yet. We’re sure they haven’t kept totally quiet, but at least people haven’t started calling us. I haven’t had to defend our decision, as I haven’t really seen my cousins much lately and since we’re all around the same age, they’d be the "biggies" to notice any discrepancies in the norm.  (There are seven of us, I’ll be the sixth to get married, and it’s all been within the past 10 years, including two in the past two).

Response:

>My question for the group is, >Anyone out there without an e-ring, that does or does not regret that >decision?  Is it a bother to explain ringlessness to others?  It’s also >a pet peeve when people pity me for not having something I don’t want. >Just feed me some anecdotes about ringless life, I’d be interested.

An engagement ring is given as a symbol, nothing more, nothing less. But if rings genuinely aren’t your thing, then I imagine in the long run you’ll be happier with whatever is more meaningful to you as an individual, regardless of what others do. There was, for example, one couple who were camping enthusiasts. She said to him that she didn’t want an engagement ring, but would be very happy with an engagement canoe. So that’s what he bought (the canoe proving most useful for their particular honeymoon). You’re a unique individual, and kudos to you if the symbols you would like aren’t necessarily what everyone else has, but those which are most meaningful to you. CJ

Response:

Hello, folks, I lurk off and on here.  I like this group, because it’s sort of a chance to get my girl talk fix, I am in a male populated field. I’ve always assumed engagements went with rings, but lately I’ve been questioning that notion. I learned about the deBeers thing, and that pi**ed me off.  And I don’t normally wear jewelry at all, I never bothered to get my ears pierced, and don’t really know anything about jewelry.  FH and I would of course wear wedding rings for symbolism and to display marital status. I’ve read up on here long enough to know that doing the whole wedding process is really 3 credit course of sorts: etiquette, the 4 c’s, how to buy stuff you’ll never buy again, how to juggle being a host and guest of honor, etc.  But most people seem to have outside lives. Reading up on etiquitte takes priority: I’m still cringing because I didn’t RSVP to a wedding back when I was 19 and didn’t realize.  But is taking time to get educated on jewelry so important?  What I’m saying is I feel very grumpy right now thinking about having to go through a ring shopping process.  Regardless of whose pocket it comes from, it’s money.  Educating yourself on diamonds, (when are you going to have to buy one again?), saving up, getting it, should it be a surprise, will she like it, (can she wear it daily if she would never think of carrying the cash equivalent of that ring in her back pocket daily?) blah, blah, blah.  A wedding purchase on the other hand (hehe) seems like more fun than work. Eventually, I’ll get engaged here, so what do I want?  Ok, by my previous paragraph, that would be pretty clear what I don’t want, but I can’t tell if my cynicism is just for the moment at this time of night or what I actully don’t want.  I’m pretty traditional in most ways, and bought the whole deBeers line so completely that it feels weird to question wanting a ring.  I’ve also been conditioned by our culture, that putting money down on something legitimizes it (ring as relationship security deposit? – ew). My question for the group is, Anyone out there without an e-ring, that does or does not regret that decision?  Is it a bother to explain ringlessness to others?  It’s also a pet peeve when people pity me for not having something I don’t want. Just feed me some anecdotes about ringless life, I’d be interested. Before you buy.

Response:

Filed under: Diamond Wedding Ring