Wedding Rings

Is this a good price for a diamond?

Question:

I purchased a 1.5 carat diamond engagement ring.  Other than the fact that it is pear shaped, and the setting has marquis and diamond chips, the specs are the same as yours.  I went to a trusted wholesaler who sold it to me for $5000.  It was appraised for $7000. I think you should go that route.

Response:

I am in the wholesale diamond business, I would be than happy to quote diamonds with certificates to anyone at the rapaport price. Also if you have any questions on diamonds I will answer all questions. tel 212- 319-0070 Bruce D. Verstandig – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: then Michael wrote… >: >I don’t know if this one will be "the one" but it >was good to finally see >: >something that took our breath away.  We just saw so >many bad looking >: >diamonds that we were relieved to see something >nice.  I will definately >: >be looking around more, comparing price and >quality. >: AH HA, EXACTLY! Buy something you’ll be happy with. >Choose a diamond with >: the specs you want! If you are happy with 63% table, >so be it; it is the >: "right" diamond for you, no matter what anyone says! >Happiness is the bottom >: line. >Believe us, we don’t want to spend $7,600 on a diamond, >but if we spend $3,000 on something we don’t like, then >it would be $3,000 wasted.  At least we’d know that the >$7,600 went for something that we really liked. >– >Michael Rothstein

Response:

|> My girlfriend and I are looking at diamond engagement rings and found a |> beautiful one today.  The specs are as follows: |> |> Round, Brilliant, 1.00 carat |> E color |> VS2 clarity |> Depth: 60.4% |> Table: 63% |> Gridle: Medium to slightly thick, faceted. |> Polish: Good |> Symmetry: Good |> Fluorescence: Faint |> 6.43 – 6.52 x 3.91mm |> Platinum Setting, 6 prong. The color and clarity are both excellent. The cut seems to be less than ideal as the table is a little large (the depth seems large as well which indicates (to me at least) that the girdle diameter must be small for a stone this size. An ideal table would be between 53 and 57%. The depth should be 58-60%…which is close. That’s not a typo on the table, is it? |> The store is Fortunoff and the price they are asking is $7650.  We put a |> deposit on it and they will hold it for one month with a full refund. |> |> The diamond was beautiful with a lot of brilliance and fire.  We weren’t |> expecting to pay so much, but we’ve looked at so many places and haven’t |> seen anything nearly as beautiful.  Of course, the rings we’ve been |> looking at elsewhere were in the $3000-$4000 range.  Is this ring |> described above a good deal? What are the credentials of the store? Member AGS? GIA affiliated? The price *seems* high, but it could be due to honest color grading. To be honest with you, the cut proportions bother me a little for the price. One important dimension that you do not give is the crown height. That should be about 15% for this stone. That will give the depth number a little more meaning. If the store is very reputable, then the price is probably pretty good. Certainly at that price you would be wise to get a second appraisal and make any purchase conditional upon the outcome. You should be able to come to some sort of agreement with the owner… especially if they are a small, family owned store that needs a good reputation for business. BTW, diamonds with a wider table tend to have more brilliance and less fire. Essentially it will be very "eye catching", but it won’t show as many colors as one with a smaller table. The tradeoff goes the other way as well. When you are buying a diamond in this price range, be EXTREMELY cautious. The more educated you are, the better off you are. I would recommend spending the $15 on a good reference. I’ll try to email you my FAQ which has my two favorites listed in the back… –Jim |> Thanks for any advice you can give. |> — |> |> Michael Rothstein

Response:

Michael wrote…

… >place we’ve shopped at.  Before we stopped into Fortunoff, we stopped >into Tiffany’s (we live near Manhattan) to get an idea of what really

… Oh, you live in NY? Go down to the diamond district on the 47th. You should be able to get diamonds at about Rapaport, if you convince them that you know what you are doing, and if you bother them long enough. Check it out! –Peter in Madison, WI

Response:

just a quick note….boy, I need to read other people’s post more carefully… Michael Rothstein wrote…. >amazing diamonds look like.  The diamonds at Tiffany’s looked perfect.  I >guess that is because they also showed us a "D" color "IF"!  It was a >1.83 carat beauty for around $47,000!!  I guess after seeing the price on

Br 1.83ct D IF diamond Rap prices at 17.0K/ct or $31,110. Tiffany’s $47,00 is just 50% over this. then Michael wrote… >I don’t know if this one will be "the one" but it was good to finally see >something that took our breath away.  We just saw so many bad looking >diamonds that we were relieved to see something nice.  I will definately >be looking around more, comparing price and quality.

AH HA, EXACTLY! Buy something you’ll be happy with. Choose a diamond with the specs you want! If you are happy with 63% table, so be it; it is the "right" diamond for you, no matter what anyone says! Happiness is the bottom line. –Peter in Madison

Response:

: then Michael wrote…

: >I don’t know if this one will be "the one" but it was good to finally see : >something that took our breath away.  We just saw so many bad looking : >diamonds that we were relieved to see something nice.  I will definately : >be looking around more, comparing price and quality. : AH HA, EXACTLY! Buy something you’ll be happy with. Choose a diamond with : the specs you want! If you are happy with 63% table, so be it; it is the : "right" diamond for you, no matter what anyone says! Happiness is the bottom : line. Believe us, we don’t want to spend $7,600 on a diamond, but if we spend $3,000 on something we don’t like, then it would be $3,000 wasted.  At least we’d know that the $7,600 went for something that we really liked. — Michael Rothstein

Response:

My girlfriend and I are looking at diamond engagement rings and found a beautiful one today.  The specs are as follows: Round, Brilliant, 1.00 carat E color VS2 clarity Depth: 60.4% Table: 63% Gridle: Medium to slightly thick, faceted. Polish: Good Symmetry: Good Fluorescence: Faint 6.43 – 6.52 x 3.91mm Platinum Setting, 6 prong. The store is Fortunoff and the price they are asking is $7650.  We put a deposit on it and they will hold it for one month with a full refund. The diamond was beautiful with a lot of brilliance and fire.  We weren’t expecting to pay so much, but we’ve looked at so many places and haven’t seen anything nearly as beautiful.  Of course, the rings we’ve been looking at elsewhere were in the $3000-$4000 range.  Is this ring described above a good deal? Thanks for any advice you can give. — Michael Rothstein

Response:

James Kokernak answers the following query from Michael Rothstein… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My girlfriend and I are looking at diamond engagement rings and found a > beautiful one today.  The specs are as follows: > Round, Brilliant, 1.00 carat > E color > VS2 clarity > Depth: 60.4% > Table: 63% > Gridle: Medium to slightly thick, faceted. > Polish: Good > Symmetry: Good > Fluorescence: Faint > 6.43 – 6.52 x 3.91mm > Platinum Setting, 6 prong. >The color and clarity are both excellent. The cut seems to be less than >ideal as the table is a little large (the depth seems large as well which >indicates (to me at least) that the girdle diameter must be small for >a stone this size. An ideal table would be between 53 and 57%. The depth >should be 58-60%…which is close. That’s not a typo on the table, is it?

I concur with James’ assesment. Wow, great color (top 5%!), above average clarity. Yeah, the table is a bit large, but it is still bellow that dreaded 64% mark; it does sound like a good stone. Depth is almost right on. It is not extremely round, but I don’t agree with James that the girdle is too small. The diameter of stones between Tolkowski and Eppler are 6.48 to 6.50mm, or about the size of this diamond. I am always a little leary of diamonds right on the 1 carat mark, as the cutters try whatever they can to make it just over that magical 1.00, even if it means sacrificing the cut a bit; but this stone, from what its cert looks good on its own. > The diamond was beautiful with a lot of brilliance and fire.  We weren’t > expecting to pay so much, but we’ve looked at so many places and haven’t > seen anything nearly as beautiful.  Of course, the rings we’ve been > looking at elsewhere were in the $3000-$4000 range.  Is this ring > described above a good deal? >What are the credentials of the store? Member AGS? GIA affiliated? The >price *seems* high, but it could be due to honest color grading. To

Although I agree with James that it is crucial to get reputable jeweler, in this case this is not as needed. Although Michael didn’t mention it, it is obvious that this stone is certified (yeah, they can judge the color, and clarity, but how many jewelers give diameter ranges, judge the polish, and have ability to comment on fluorescence?). The judgement on a GIA cert is the final word. The only thing that a person who buys diamonds with a cert has to worry about, is that the cert and the diamond go together; I doubt that there are too many retailers who are stupid enough to switch diamonds on customers, but if one buys stones through newspapers, one needs to be careful. It appears that the stone that Michael is buying _is_ in fact Br 1.00ct E VS2. PRICE: Ok, now to price. According to a two month old price sheet, the high cash asking wholesale price of Br 1.00 E VS2 is $5700 (RDR vol 17 Iss 36, sorry don’t have anything more recent, but the diamond prices have been kinda flat in the couple of months, so there should be no great increase from this $5700). Now, if you consider that this stone has several minor problems with the cut,(MINOR!!, it is not neccessarily a bad stone) i.e. larger table, not round enough, this may be give you a discount of several percentage points. Retailers can usually buy these size diamonds for about 20-40% below Rap, and sell them 50 to 100% over the COGS. Hence, I’d say that the lowest price would be in the mid to high $6K range. Now, Michael stated that this diamond is being sold in a Pt setting. This could be additional $300 to $1000+, ranging from a plain Tiffany setting with 3mm band to more fancier settings. Remember, Pt is more expensive than just gold, and if it is already set, you are also paying for setting it; this service is usually a trivial cost, but Pt is a lot harder to work with, and not everyone is qualified to do this work. Finally, you are also paying for the GIA cert, a premium of $100 – $150. Bottom line: $7650 does not seem way out of line. Gives you a negotiating room of perhaps a few hudred dollars, but not too much. But then, what do I know! Good luck with diamond buying, and congrats on you engagement!   –Peter in Madison

Response:

: |> My girlfriend and I are looking at diamond engagement rings and found a : |> beautiful one today.  The specs are as follows: : |> : |> Round, Brilliant, 1.00 carat : |> E color : |> VS2 clarity : |> Depth: 60.4% : |> Table: 63% : |> Gridle: Medium to slightly thick, faceted. : |> Polish: Good : |> Symmetry: Good : |> Fluorescence: Faint : |> 6.43 – 6.52 x 3.91mm : |> Platinum Setting, 6 prong. : The color and clarity are both excellent. The cut seems to be less than : ideal as the table is a little large (the depth seems large as well which : indicates (to me at least) that the girdle diameter must be small for : a stone this size. An ideal table would be between 53 and 57%. The depth : should be 58-60%…which is close. That’s not a typo on the table, is it? We do have a book called "Engagement and Wedding Rings" by Antoinette Matlins, Antonio Bonanno, F.G.A., A.S.A., M.G.A., and Jane Crystal.  In this book, they list this table as acceptable, though not ideal or excellent.  My girlfriend likes more brilliance than fire however.  That isn’t a typo on the table, it is sixty-three percent.  According to our book, the depth is rated as Excellent to Ideal.  We wish the crown height was listed, but it wasn’t in the report. : What are the credentials of the store? Member AGS? GIA affiliated? The : price *seems* high, but it could be due to honest color grading. To : be honest with you, the cut proportions bother me a little for the price. : One important dimension that you do not give is the crown height. That : should be about 15% for this stone. That will give the depth number a : little more meaning. If the store is very reputable, then the price is : probably pretty good. Certainly at that price you would be wise to : get a second appraisal and make any purchase conditional upon the outcome. : You should be able to come to some sort of agreement with the owner… : especially if they are a small, family owned store that needs a good : reputation for business. I’m sure that Fortunoff has good credentials.  It is a higher class of store, not just a fly-by-night place that will disappear tomorrow.  They had a report from the GIA which gave this information.  That is where we copied these specs from. : When you are buying a diamond in this price range, be EXTREMELY cautious. : The more educated you are, the better off you are. I would recommend : spending the $15 on a good reference. I’ll try to email you my FAQ which : has my two favorites listed in the back… We both have been reading a lot about diamonds, and this isn’t the first place we’ve shopped at.  Before we stopped into Fortunoff, we stopped into Tiffany’s (we live near Manhattan) to get an idea of what really amazing diamonds look like.  The diamonds at Tiffany’s looked perfect.  I guess that is because they also showed us a "D" color "IF"!  It was a 1.83 carat beauty for around $47,000!!  I guess after seeing the price on this one, $7,650 looked like a real bargain.  We really haven’t seen any diamonds we really liked until we went to Tiffany’s.  Then when we stopped into Fortunoff, and loved what we saw. I don’t know if this one will be "the one" but it was good to finally see something that took our breath away.  We just saw so many bad looking diamonds that we were relieved to see something nice.  I will definately be looking around more, comparing price and quality. Thanks for your help and for the FAQ.  I can’t believe how much I’ve learned about diamonds.  I never knew there was so much to them! — Michael Rothstein

Response:

Filed under: Diamond Wedding Ring