Wedding Rings

GIA certification and Diamond Wholesalers

Question:

> >> > > > > Let me tell you a secret. >> > > > > There aren’t any women who don’t like diamonds >> > > > Wrong. Here’s one. HTH >> It’s true for me as well. I got my first diamond for Christmas… >Count me in as well. Apparently this guy has a lot to learn about women.

hehehe

Response:

: >> > Let me tell you a secret. : >> > There aren’t any women who don’t like diamonds : >> : >> Wrong. Here’s one. HTH : >> :> Here is another one. :> > Here is another one

Can we stand one more??? I’m not a big fan of diamonds, either.  Not from a safety angle (although that’s something to think about), and they’re pretty enough, I guess, but I have always preferred colored stones.  Then, that ad campaign ("Is two month’s salary too much for something that lasts forever??"  No, if you’re talking about something USEFUL, like a house downpayment!!)  I mean, please!  Even if I *did* like diamonds, that would totally turn me off. Just chiming in, Lisa

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : > > : > 1 caret and above?  If that is true, does anyone know any reputable agency > : > that does certify stones of less than 1 caret?  I want to purchase a F or > : > a G color stone that has a VS1 or VSII clarity grade, but my girlfriend > : > has VERY small fingers and anything more than about 1/2 a caret will be > : Hehe… I haven’t heard this one before…  Let me tell you a secret.   > : There aren’t any women who don’t like diamonds, there are just women who > : don’t like *small* diamonds.  It can’t be too big.  A 1.25 with .75 more > : in baguettes like I just purchased looks magnificent on any size finger. > Well, you’re hearing it now  I don’t like diamonds.  I own a pair of > diamond earrings that I never wear.  They sit in my jewelry box looking > forlorn.  I think they’re kinda boring, actually.  They’re sparkly and > all, but cold at best and washed out looking at worst (IMO).  I prefer > sapphires and emeralds, even some of the semi-precious stones like opals > and aquamarines. I dislike DeBeers marketing practices.  I would be > terrified to own a piece of jewelry worth that much money.  I also have very > small hands and fingers and let me tell you, large rings don’t make my hands > look elegant or sophisticated.  They make them look like I’m a child wearing > my mommy’s costume jewelry for dress up.  So you can now count me with > the women who don’t like diamonds, big or small. > Kris

Me too. I don’t like diamonds much either, mostly because they aren’t as rare as many other gems, and yet because of the marketing, they cost way too much. I don’t approve of forcing a ‘demand’ for them by only squeaking a few out of each mine.  I also don’t like how the diamond companies make people feel that they need to spend 2 months salary on a diamond ring. you don’t hear the ruby and emerald folks saying stuff like that. My husband gave me a diamond aniversary band which i wear, but I am always checking out jewelry stores to see if i can trade it in for something else.  If he had asked me before he bought it i would have asked that he get something other than diamonds. Jenna

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Who is this Roger Connolly and where can he buy a clue??? sheesh!   Jeanie —

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Wow!  I never thought my little question would generate this much attention!  The deal is, my girlfriend has no idea my proposal is comming (unless she has been trolling in this newsgroup… )   In fact our friends joke that she won’t walk down the aisle, she will roll down the aisle in a wheelchair.  So asking her an which stone she wants is definitely out of the question.  I do think that a diamond above  .75 carats would look to big on her hand, and even at that weight I think it would look large.  She would never tell me if she thought it was too big…or to small as she will be happy just to know that we are finally engaged with marriage on the horizon!  There are obviouslly women out there who don’t like diamonds, some who don’t like large diamonds, etc….  it’s obviouslly not smart to make sweeping generalizations about all women loving large diamonds.  Hey everyone loves chocolate… but I can’t stand the stuff!  I thank you all for helping me see that she really won’t care what the weight of the diamond is, just that she is getting one, and that I need to think what we both will be comfortable with!  By the way, I think somewhere along the line someone did say that the GIA certifies stones weighing less than 1 carat!   Thanks again!                                                  Bjorn

Response:

: >

: >> : >> > Let me tell you a secret. : >> > There aren’t any women who don’t like diamonds : >> : >> Wrong. Here’s one. HTH : >> : >> –Christine Braunger : > : Here is another one. I, too, am not fond of diamonds.  Give me a colored stone (esp. a sapphire) any day. And, yes, I do have a diamond ring.  My wedding ring/engagement ring has a large diamond on it.  But whenever we go out, I tend to keep my hand in my pocket…  call me paranoid, I guess  :) — JMR

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Just one more anti-DeBeerser standing up to be counted.  I have a beautiful pearl engagement ring. I decidedly did *not* want a diamond. Lauren

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<<I, too, am not fond of diamonds.  Give me a colored stone (esp. a sapphire) any day.>>  I managed to convince my fiance to get me a sapphire ring & earrings (about a half-carat of diamond accents collectively) which I love, and never feel nervous about. I hate reading these silly things where people say No woman dislikes diamonds – and I guess if I hated them, I wouldn’t like to even have them as accents, but, I certainly am more pleased with sapphires than diamonds any day. Heidi

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>: >> > Let me tell you a secret. >: >> > There aren’t any women who don’t like diamonds >: >> Wrong. Here’s one. HTH >: Here is another one. >Here is another one and yes, I owned a small diamond that my grandmother >gave me in a ring when I turned 13.   I am getting to like them better as >I age, but there are other stones I’d prefer.  Actually, there are other >THINGS I prefer to jewelry.  Travel is way up there.  So I have to say I >don’t actively dislike diamonds.  They just seem like a sorry way to use >up travel money.  

Here’s another one.  My engagement ring is a gold and white gold puzzle ring, no diamond or anything. I find the diamond cartel abhorrent and I find DeBeers irriating in the extrmeme with their pushy ads and social manipulation of what women are supposed to want and what men must do in order to demonstrate their love. And I really get grumpy when people, men or women, tell me what I like or dislike as a consequence of my sex.  Grr. — |     Feminism-the notion (apparently radical to some) that women are people |O/| Humanism-the notion that all people are human.  The Empathy Principle: | _ | feel what other people feel in response to your actions. |/ | http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~cfairman/  *Carolyn Fairman*

Response:

>> > > > > Let me tell you a secret. > > > > > There aren’t any women who don’t like diamonds > > > > Wrong. Here’s one. HTH > It’s true for me as well. I got my first diamond for Christmas… >Count me in as well. Apparently this guy has a lot to learn about women.

well here’s another me too post! I have never liked diamonds in fact as a child I was always bummed that they were my birthstone! Give me a stone with color any day. I concede that there are colored diamonds, but they don’t compare to the rainbow of corundum colors! I have a gorgeous ruby engagement ring–it has small diamonds on the side but it was the RUBY I really wanted! Michaele

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: > : > 1 caret and above?  If that is true, does anyone know any reputable agency : > that does certify stones of less than 1 caret?  I want to purchase a F or : > a G color stone that has a VS1 or VSII clarity grade, but my girlfriend : > has VERY small fingers and anything more than about 1/2 a caret will be : Hehe… I haven’t heard this one before…  Let me tell you a secret.   : There aren’t any women who don’t like diamonds, there are just women who : don’t like *small* diamonds.  It can’t be too big.  A 1.25 with .75 more : in baguettes like I just purchased looks magnificent on any size finger. Well, you’re hearing it now  I don’t like diamonds.  I own a pair of diamond earrings that I never wear.  They sit in my jewelry box looking forlorn.  I think they’re kinda boring, actually.  They’re sparkly and all, but cold at best and washed out looking at worst (IMO).  I prefer sapphires and emeralds, even some of the semi-precious stones like opals and aquamarines. I dislike DeBeers marketing practices.  I would be terrified to own a piece of jewelry worth that much money.  I also have very small hands and fingers and let me tell you, large rings don’t make my hands look elegant or sophisticated.  They make them look like I’m a child wearing my mommy’s costume jewelry for dress up.  So you can now count me with the women who don’t like diamonds, big or small. Kris

Response:

: >

: >> : >> > Let me tell you a secret. : >> > There aren’t any women who don’t like diamonds : >> : >> Wrong. Here’s one. HTH : >> : >> –Christine Braunger : > : >Have you ever owned one? : Here is another one. Here is another one and yes, I owned a small diamond that my grandmother gave me in a ring when I turned 13.   I am getting to like them better as I age, but there are other stones I’d prefer.  Actually, there are other THINGS I prefer to jewelry.  Travel is way up there.  So I have to say I don’t actively dislike diamonds.  They just seem like a sorry way to use up travel money.   If I didn’t like to travel so much, maybe I’d take more interest in what is on my fingers.

Response:

> > > Let me tell you a secret. > > There aren’t any women who don’t like diamonds > Wrong. Here’s one. HTH > Have you ever owned one?

Yes indeedy – inheritance from my grandmother. It is sitting in my jewelry box until (if) my brother gets engaged – if his fiancee likes diamonds, I’ll offer them mine. I love big gemstones, so the size of the diamond isn’t the issue. Diamonds are sparkly, but in my opinion emeralds, rubies, sapphires, and amethysts have more warmth, character, personality, and beauty. I also dislike the DeBeers marketing practices. So please, put this data point on your map and think of me the next time you generalize about all women loving diamonds. –Christine Braunger

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > <snip of other stuff> >There aren’t any women who don’t like diamonds, there are just women who >don’t like *small* diamonds.  It can’t be too big.  A 1.25 with .75 more >in baguettes like I just purchased looks magnificent on any size finger. >IMO, you should invest the money in a larger stone, and go for SI1 >clarity.  Remember, SI1 with a good, clear color can not be distinguished >by anyone but superman with the naked eye.  Certification tells you that >you are not being ripped off, but why would you care about the VS or VVS >unless you are planning to sell the stone later? > Umm, sweeping generalization, I think.  I know several women who don’t > particularly care for diamonds, ESPECIALLY big ones.  For clarification, > what do you consider as small?  Is a 1/2 carat small?

Small is relative.  I think .5 carat is small. I’ll probably get flamed for this, but I have found (and my Jeweler associate would back this up) that in MOST (but not all) cases, a woman who says that she doesn’t like diamonds, or doesn’t like large diamonds is making a justification, because she knows she may never get one. I have also never known, nor heard of a woman giving a diamond back to the giver because it was "too big".  I have, however made accuaintance of many women who have been promised "upgrades" on their engagement stone, and are eagerly awaiting them. > Maybe I was imagining things when I was at the jewelers picking out the > stone for my ring (we shopped together for it), but I could notice a > difference between the SI1 H color and the VVS E color stone we chose.

Of course.  SI1 to VVSx is a three or four step jump.  I would expect you to be able to tell.  On a larger SI1, the colour is far more important.   My fiancees Stone is hovering between D/E colour. > It may well have been the cut, but if so, maybe that’s a problem with > the "lesser" quality stones.  I don’t know much about the diamond > industry, except that I’m totally in love with my pear-shaped diamond.

All things must be taken into consideration.  A VVSx D stone will not look at its best unless the Table is right (Square or Bowed in), the girdle is the right thinkness, and located at the right height on the diamond.   Pears are great.  If buying cut stones at a knockdown price for investment purposes (who knows why), always buy round brilliants.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Anyway, just wanted to point out that we have lots of different tastes > out here.  Luckily, there are that many different stones for us all > to pick from. > my $0.02 … > Dina > (who might be a sucker, but doesn’t care ath this point

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > Let me tell you a secret. > > > There aren’t any women who don’t like diamonds > > Wrong. Here’s one. HTH > Have you ever owned one? > Yes indeedy – inheritance from my grandmother. It is sitting in my jewelry > box until (if) my brother gets engaged – if his fiancee likes diamonds, > I’ll offer them mine. > I love big gemstones, so the size of the diamond isn’t the issue. Diamonds > are sparkly, but in my opinion emeralds, rubies, sapphires, and amethysts > have more warmth, character, personality, and beauty. I also dislike the > DeBeers marketing practices. > So please, put this data point on your map and think of me the next time > you generalize about all women loving diamonds. > –Christine Braunger

It’s true for me as well. I got my first diamond for Christmas (an antique platinum ring from my mother) and although I love it for the setting and the sentiment, the stone really doesn’t do anything for me. I know that once I get a diamond I’m supposed to feel like nothing else comes close, that I’m not really dressed without one, that they’re my best friend…. I guess I’m odd, but I just don’t feel that way. I always thought that diamonds are like any other type of jewelry – some people like them and some don’t. Anyway, just another voice. — R. Aileen Yingst Planetary Geology, Brown University

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When I was looking for diamonds I had searched all around the bay area checking for prices and by talking with salesman whether he knew what he was talking about. I ended up at the GiftCenter and bought my at Derco’s Jewelers.  I liked them and gee it was busy there.  Alot of people buying diamonds.  One thing I liked about them is that I called them and asked for specifics of a diamond I was looking at somewhere else and asked how much they sell it for.   There are many things to look for in a diamond especially if your fiance is planning to spend the big bucks.  But whatever you are happy with then buy it.  Anyway, as I go on….I did go to those places on Powell St. that have many booths of Jewerly and selling diamonds that are non-cert.  I found out that I could have send a diamond to the GIA people in LA and they can certify it for me.  But it seems that guy that was trying to sell that non-cert diamond didn’t seem to trustworthy…. But in the end its up to you whatever you like…….Just make sure whatever you end up with you like and will wear forever.

Response:

> > Let me tell you a secret. > There aren’t any women who don’t like diamonds > Wrong. Here’s one. HTH > –Christine Braunger

Have you ever owned one?

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>> > Let me tell you a secret. > > There aren’t any women who don’t like diamonds > Wrong. Here’s one. HTH > –Christine Braunger >Have you ever owned one?

Here is another one. I have a diamond ring with a large diamond and 2 pearls, which I bought from a friend who was strapped for cash.  It was her mother’s engagement ring. (Her mother was a from a prominent New York family, and the ring is from Tiffany’s.) I have never worn it, except to try it on (I have had it resized to fit) and find it hard to imagine a situation in which I would be comfortable (either physically or mentally) wearing it. Janet Gunn

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> Let me tell you a secret.   > There aren’t any women who don’t like diamonds

Wrong. Here’s one. HTH –Christine Braunger

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> > Has anyone ever purchased a diamond from a Jewelry wholesaler?  > > Beware! There are very few restrictions on the use of the word > "Wholesale".  It really tells you NOTHING about the price > comparisons.       Some retail places will tell you "wholesale", buy > many times it is already marked up 100%.

This is true.  It certainly is caveat emptor world if you are dealing with a wholesaler, not only as far as the price goes, but also as far as the 4 C’s go.  In order to minimize these two concerns, you may wish to purchase only certified stones (if you are looking to spend <$2000, you may have a problem finding these), and to make sure you are paying the right price, get a hold of the Rapaport Diamond Newsletter, or the Guide.  If you are the end user, like in any other trade, you WILL NOT get the true wholesale price, but you’ll rather split the difference with the dealer.  For more info on buying from dealers, please see a section of my Engagement Diamond FAQ 9e-mail me if you need a copy) that deals with this subject. –Peter Mlynek

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> IMO, you should invest the money in a larger stone, and go for > SI1 clarity.  Remember, SI1 with a good, clear color can not be > distinguished by anyone but superman with the naked eye.   > Certification tells you that you are not being ripped off, but > why would you care about the VS or VVS unless you are planning > to sell the stone later?

IMHO, you should not look at it as an investment, since you wont get the money back (more on this later).  The only reason why you should buy a diamond of a certain color or clarity grade, is because you want to buy it.  Yes, the logic behind buying a diamond that is much more expensive because of what could be seen only under a microscope is pretty nebulous, but people should buy the diamond because of the feeling of having a ‘quality good’ on their finger, not because other people can see that it is a ‘quality good’.  If you want to impress people with big flashy stones, then just buy a CZ.  You are buying a diamond for YOURSELF, not for other people. > Also, certificated stones are more expensive.

True, but the difference is usually a noise. > When you buy a non > certificated, you need to know how to use a loop and check the > stone.  A gemologist will check the color against a set of > master stones.  If you buy a non certificated, the appraisers > will accurately estimate the colour and clarity for you.  If you > have a 30 or 90 day return policy, then you could return the > ring.

A couple of points:  use a microscope, not a loupe.  It is much easier to examine the stone in a trough if you have both hands free.  But then again, people have been using loupes successfully for decades….  :) Since the previous poster stated that he was interested in buying from a dealer, he should be aware that he needs to negotiate this examination period when he buys the stone, as dealers don’t usually have a return policy.   > The sad process of having to sell a stones reminds me of other > pitfalls, namely, a ring purchased at regular retail.  You would > not be able to sell it for even close to what you paid for it.

Good point.  When you plunk down your money, just kiss it good bye.  If you want to resell it, you get roughly a quarter what you paid for it. > I just purchased [a ring, and] had it appraised by certified > gemologists here in Washington at $10,800.  I paid $5,250 for > it.  My purpose in saying this is twofold.  First, there are > HUGE markups in the industry. 80% – 300%, depending on where you > buy.  A BIG great quality stone is usually a better purchase > than a SMALL tip-top-quality stone.  Your fiancee will agree, > and will not be able to see any difference, trust me.

The difference between the appraised value and paid price also depends on what the appraised value really represents.  It is very important that when you ask someone to appraise any piece of jewelery, that you tell them what it is for.  The appraised value of an engagement ring (usually done for insurance reasons) should be a little higher then actually paid, but not two fold as indicated above….do you really think that the insurance company will double your money if the piece is lost? Roger posted that the carat weight should be stressed, while clarity and color (though important) should be secondary.  My opinion is that the cut is the most important, then clarity and color, while the size (while important) plays a secondary role.   Since we are talking about an esthetic good, which is subjectively judged, hence there are no right or wrong answers.  YOU should decide which critiria about diamonds is important to you. It’s your money; spend it on a diamond that YOU like, not on a diamond that the experts say is of good quality. –Peter Mlynek

Response:

> >    I want to purchase a F or a G color stone that has a VS1 > or VSII clarity grade,

Both the color and the clarity is a little bit above the median…. > but my girlfriend has VERY small fingers and anything more > than about 1/2 a caret will be too big but I want the stone >to be certified!  Any help would be great! > Hehe… I haven’t heard this one before…  Let me tell you a > secret.  There aren’t any women who don’t like diamonds, there > are just women who don’t like *small* diamonds.  It can’t be > too big.

This is simply not true, if reading various NG is any indication.   Many women don’t like diamonds due to ethical issues (real or imagined) about dealing with DeBeers’ products, due to not wanting to fall into the hype concerning diamonds, due to liking other gemstones much better, due to rather high prices of diamonds, etc.  Some women don’t like *big* diamonds due to the cost, due to being perceived as pretentious, due to being perceved as owning a stone of poor clarity, color or cut.   "All women like diamonds" is something that would be a good marketing slogan; let’s not push people into diamond buying anymore than the society is already doing. But I do have to agree with Roger that the size of fingers have very little to do with the size of the diamond… the difference between a round diamond weighing one carat and a half a carat is the difference between 6.5 mm and 5.2 mm diameter….can you tell the difference?  Perhaps this difference is important even if you can’t see it by casual glance, but don’t waste your money on something that is not important to you. –Peter Mlynek

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<snip of other stuff> >There aren’t any women who don’t like diamonds, there are just women who >don’t like *small* diamonds.  It can’t be too big.  A 1.25 with .75 more >in baguettes like I just purchased looks magnificent on any size finger. >IMO, you should invest the money in a larger stone, and go for SI1 >clarity.  Remember, SI1 with a good, clear color can not be distinguished >by anyone but superman with the naked eye.  Certification tells you that >you are not being ripped off, but why would you care about the VS or VVS >unless you are planning to sell the stone later?  

Umm, sweeping generalization, I think.  I know several women who don’t particularly care for diamonds, ESPECIALLY big ones.  For clarification, what do you consider as small?  Is a 1/2 carat small?   Maybe I was imagining things when I was at the jewelers picking out the stone for my ring (we shopped together for it), but I could notice a difference between the SI1 H color and the VVS E color stone we chose. It may well have been the cut, but if so, maybe that’s a problem with the "lesser" quality stones.  I don’t know much about the diamond industry, except that I’m totally in love with my pear-shaped diamond. Anyway, just wanted to point out that we have lots of different tastes out here.  Luckily, there are that many different stones for us all to pick from. my $0.02 … Dina (who might be a sucker, but doesn’t care ath this point

Response:

> Has anyone ever purchased a diamond from a Jewelry wholesaler?  I have

Beware! There are very few restrictions on the use of the word "Wholesale".  It really tells you NOTHING about the price comparisons.         Some retail places will tell you "wholesale", buy many times it is already marked up 100%. > been reading the Wall Street Journal for a long time and I called a > wholesaler that had an advertisement there.  The name of the company > started with a K, but I can

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