Wedding Rings

FAQ: Alt.wedding Part 1 of 3

Question:

> The alt.wedding FAQ > Posting Frequency: Monthly > Last Modified: 1 April 1999 > Version 5.0 > Part 3 of 3 > 4.19) I’ve been thinking about a butterfly release. Is this a > good idea?

The answer you give in your FAQ concerning butterfly releases is erroneous and misleading. I breed butterflies. I wouldn’t be in business if I sold dead butterflies. The increased popularity in butterfly releases is a testimony to their success. I’m sure my business would have folded three years ago if people were not thrilled with it. Use your common sense; does a business survive if people aren’t satisfied? I would think not. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The alt.wedding FAQ > Posting Frequency: Monthly > Last Modified: 1 April 1999 > Version 5.0 > Part 3 of 3 > 4.19) I’ve been thinking about a butterfly release. Is this a > good idea? > The answer you give in your FAQ concerning butterfly releases is > erroneous and misleading. I breed butterflies. I wouldn’t be in > business if I sold dead butterflies. The increased popularity in > butterfly releases is a testimony to their success. I’m sure my > business would have folded three years ago if people were not thrilled > with it. > Use your common sense; does a business survive if people aren’t > satisfied? I would think not.

Most wedding services are not a repeat business.  There probably are a few releases that go along well depending on climate, time of year, latitude, etc., but as with all living things, the PROBABILITY is such that you’re asking for failure.  Does a business survive if you don’t depend on repeat business and your clients are ill-informed so they contract with  you anyway? Yes.

Response:

>The answer you give in your FAQ concerning butterfly releases is >erroneous and misleading.

In the interest of balanced viewpoints, you could probably draft an article that addresses each of the points mentioned in the reasons why it can be bad — as long as you don’t close with "it keeps me in business". >Use your common sense; does a business survive if people aren’t >satisfied? I would think not.

Heh! You underestimate the power of the individual to believe "But it won’t happen that way to *me*!"  Witness the Usenet classic  "Make Money Fast".  It’s now a turn $7 into $70,000 proposition. Sometimes it isn’t a matter of survival; it’s a matter of staying in the market as long as one can sell their goods to the unsuspecting public — witness all the miracle diet programs churned out on a seasonal basis, the late-night info-mercials for health products too diverse to describe, and all the build-your-wealth plans sold to the optimistic dreamer.  All of these target the current mood of the public — but few of them live up to the expectations once the package arrives at the doorstep. And the seller still pockets the money. So, you’re half right. Some businesses don’t survive when customers aren’t pleased.  But then, some businesses aren’t out for long-term contributions to the marketplace; they are poised to take on maximum short-term profit before the word gets out. <shrug>  Just my opinion, and you are free to write that article addressing the specific points you disagree with. — Josie

Response:

>Most wedding services are not a repeat business.

        But we DO depend on referrals. >   Does a business survive if you don’t >depend on repeat business and your clients are ill-informed so they >contract with  you anyway? Yes.

        Not if they develop a bad reputation . Besides, anyone buying anything needs to be informed. Unfortunately many couples don’t want to bother getting an education !  Regards, John S. Douglas          Spectrum Photographic Inc Photographer           http://www.spectrumphoto.com Darkroom processes, formulas, facts and information. Weddings,portraits,commercial and stock photography

Response:

> > 4.19) I’ve been thinking about a butterfly release. Is this a > good idea? > The answer you give in your FAQ concerning butterfly releases is > erroneous and misleading. I breed butterflies. I wouldn’t be in > business if I sold dead butterflies. The increased popularity in > butterfly releases is a testimony to their success. I’m sure my > business would have folded three years ago if people were not thrilled > with it. > Use your common sense; does a business survive if people aren’t > satisfied? I would think not.

Well, Macy’s is still in business, despite the fact that no one seems to have a good word to say about the wedding registry (the eastern Macy’s, not Macy’s California, which has different management). Bridal shops that rip tags remain in business, and their practices not only lead to unsatisfied customers but are illegal. Alfred Angelo remains in business, despite the era when their bridesmaid dresses had a reputation for coming apart at the seams during the wedding. Numerous photographers, caterers, DJs, and other vendors live long and prosper despite multiple BBB complaints from unsatisfied customers. So common sense suggests that, in the wedding biz, it’s quite possible to survive even with lots of unsatisfied customers. Most people planning weddings have never planned a formal event before, so they rely on ads to tell them what vendors to try. (And it’s amazing how many people on this ng haven’t been to many weddings.) And when the service proves disappointing, it’s too late; the payments are already made and the contract protects the vendor. Increased popularity is therefore no testimony to the success of butterfly releases. If 300 couples decide on a butterfly release because they’ve seen an ad — and next year 500 couples try it for the same reason — that’s no proof that even ONE of the releases went well. All it proves is that the ad is appealing. Wende

Response:

> : Now if you were to breed LOBSTERS… >         Does anyone else here but me still get this joke?????  (I > still need to post the pictures of my lobster release on my web page. > It was increedible!)

Something which many of us have been awaiting with great anticipation, (and salivation)!  I’m convinced you will start a tradition…all it needs is the right marketing.  You barely touched on the subject when you did your summary.   I think the whole episode deserves it’s own summary for the benefit of those that weren’t around at the time to enjoy the anticipation of the great event.  It ranks as one of the greatest of all A.W. topics, and certainly one of our most anticipated events. — Steve

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Releasing butterflies is compared to slavery?   Damn. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The increased popularity in > butterfly releases is a testimony to their success. > Popularity isn’t worth squat. Slavery was pretty popular in many parts of > the world, and quite susccessful for the owners & sellers, but that still > doesn’t make it the right thing to do. > –T. > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > a.g.f.faq.chick                           gothic martha stewart > ebay sales at http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/toreadorbat/

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: Something which many of us have been awaiting with great anticipation, : (and salivation)!  I’m convinced you will start a tradition…all it : needs is the right marketing.  You barely touched on the subject when : you did your summary.           Bruce said he wanted to write about the lobster release, and much to my embarassment, he has never done it.  I also haven’t scanned the photos yet, for which I’m also red-faced! : I think the whole episode deserves it’s own summary for the benefit of : those that weren’t around at the time to enjoy the anticipation of the : great event.  It ranks as one of the greatest of all A.W. topics, and : certainly one of our most anticipated events.         It really was the highlight of the wedding festivities (other than the wedding ceremony itself).  Hopefully I’ll be able to provide more details soon and do the event justice!                                 Jill

Response:

There was an article in our local paper last week on butterfly releases which I cut out to quote here and, of course, have misplaced.  But one of the points was that by releasing butterflies, you risk altering the local species.  It also mentioned that many of them arrive dead or half dead.  (I guess those aren’t the ones who would be doing any altering.)  I’ll keep looking for the article so I can do a better job of telling you what it said. Diane > The answer you give in your FAQ concerning butterfly releases is > erroneous and misleading. I breed butterflies. I wouldn’t be in > business if I sold dead butterflies. The increased popularity in > butterfly releases is a testimony to their success. I’m sure my > business would have folded three years ago if people were not thrilled > with it. > Use your common sense; does a business survive if people aren’t > satisfied? I would think not.

And how many of your satisfied customers are on your referral list?  Can we call say a dozen of them and find out how their release went?  Or do you just supply the butterflies, but don’t attend the actual release? As others have pointed out, the wedding business is (for the most part) a one shot affair.  Dissatisfied customers abound, but they are seldom heard from because the business does not depend on repeat business. With good marketing one can sell just about ANY product to without the need for repeat customers.  One of the largest DJ company in the Washington DC area routinely cancels contracts on people at the last minute due to overbooking, employs some of the worst DJs in the area, and in general are the laughingstock of the industry, yet they remain the largest because of a large advertising budget and blatent disregard for anything except the bottom line. I have yet to see a butterfly release go smoothly.  Basically, they just stay in the box, or drop immediately to the ground.  Fortunately I don’t witness a lot of them, (we’re not generally present at the ceremony, but see our share of outdoor ones), but I must agree with Karen that boxing a living creature for personal vanity is cruel. Now if you were to breed LOBSTERS… — The Jim Bowie Band – Gaithersburg, MD http://www.JimBowieBand.com Treasurer – Association of Wedding Professionals

Response:

> And how many of your satisfied customers are on your referral list? Can > we call say a dozen of them and find out how their release went?

YES Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

: I’m sure my : business would have folded three years ago if people were not thrilled : with it.         How much repeat business is there for butterfly releases, though?  It doesn’t matter, then, if the customers were satisfied or not…it’s not like they are going to come back again and again to get more butterflies!                                 Jill

Response:

> The answer you give in your FAQ concerning butterfly releases is > erroneous and misleading. I breed butterflies. I wouldn’t be in > business if I sold dead butterflies. The increased popularity in > butterfly releases is a testimony to their success. I’m sure my > business would have folded three years ago if people were not thrilled > with it.

And how many butterfly releases have you actually experienced "in the field", so to speak?  As a photographer I’ve seen dozens of them – although thank goodness they’re getting fewer and farther between.  I can think of maybe 1 that wasn’t an unmitigated disaster.  I have seen butterflies that don’t fly.  I have seen butterflies land on the ground and get stomped by the ring bearer.  I have seen (finally) birds eat the butterflies before they can fly off. I have seen a mother of the groom scream and bat her hands and run away as she realized that the bride was releasing "BUGS!!!!".  I have yet to see one where the bride and groom walk to their vehicle surrounded by a cloud of flying butterflies as is advertised and hyped.  I’ve heard any number of couples tell me that they were sorry they spent the money on butterflies when they could have done something else that would have worked. And finally and most importantly, I think it’s incredibly cruel and inhumane (not to mention selfish) to box up a living creature for a moment of personal vanity and a photo op. Karen Karen Simmons, Photographer      Atlanta, Georgia    

Response:

The  imfamous " Butterfly  Release " is the  most  disturbing,  awful,  horrible,  cruel, thing  I’ve  ever  seen  associated  with  a wedding. I’ve been at 3 weddings that have Tried it., and it was disgustingly cruel. T.R.

Response:

> And finally and most importantly, I think it’s incredibly cruel and > inhumane (not to mention selfish) to box up a living creature for a > moment of personal vanity and a photo op.

Oh, bravo!  Well said! Bookgrrrl (<– usually hates "me too" posts, but this time, couldn’t resist)

Response:

> The answer you give in your FAQ concerning butterfly releases is > erroneous and misleading. I breed butterflies. I wouldn’t be in > business if I sold dead butterflies. The increased popularity in > butterfly releases is a testimony to their success. I’m sure my > business would have folded three years ago if people were not thrilled > with it. > Use your common sense; does a business survive if people aren’t > satisfied? I would think not.

And how many of your satisfied customers are on your referral list?  Can we call say a dozen of them and find out how their release went?  Or do you just supply the butterflies, but don’t attend the actual release? As others have pointed out, the wedding business is (for the most part) a one shot affair.  Dissatisfied customers abound, but they are seldom heard from because the business does not depend on repeat business. With good marketing one can sell just about ANY product to without the need for repeat customers.  One of the largest DJ company in the Washington DC area routinely cancels contracts on people at the last minute due to overbooking, employs some of the worst DJs in the area, and in general are the laughingstock of the industry, yet they remain the largest because of a large advertising budget and blatent disregard for anything except the bottom line. I have yet to see a butterfly release go smoothly.  Basically, they just stay in the box, or drop immediately to the ground.  Fortunately I don’t witness a lot of them, (we’re not generally present at the ceremony, but see our share of outdoor ones), but I must agree with Karen that boxing a living creature for personal vanity is cruel. Now if you were to breed LOBSTERS… — The Jim Bowie Band – Gaithersburg, MD http://www.JimBowieBand.com Treasurer – Association of Wedding Professionals

Response:

> The increased popularity in > butterfly releases is a testimony to their success.

Popularity isn’t worth squat. Slavery was pretty popular in many parts of the world, and quite susccessful for the owners & sellers, but that still doesn’t make it the right thing to do. –T. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a.g.f.faq.chick                           gothic martha stewart ebay sales at http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/toreadorbat/

Response:

: Now if you were to breed LOBSTERS…         Does anyone else here but me still get this joke?????  (I still need to post the pictures of my lobster release on my web page. It was increedible!)                                 Jill

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>: Now if you were to breed LOBSTERS… >    Does anyone else here but me still get this joke?????  (I >still need to post the pictures of my lobster release on my web page. >It was increedible!) >                            Jill

I do! My suggestion that they be dressed sparked some debate over whether cross- dressing lobsters would be permitted at fundamentalist ceremonies. Ann

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The Lobster thing  is one of the more memorable inside jokes ever "released" on  alt.wedding..   ;o) I think it should have its own newsgroup..

Response:

>The Lobster thing  is one of the more memorable >inside jokes ever "released" on  alt.wedding..   ;o) >I think it should have its own newsgroup..

How about its own FAQ? Noe

Response:

>How about its own FAQ? >Noe

oh sure, and people will be Clawing at each other  and hurling Drawn-butter claiming credit for the idea. it could get very messy… T.R.

Response:

The alt.wedding FAQ Posting Frequency: Monthly Last Modified: 1 April 1999 Version 5.0 Part 2 of 3 SECTION 3: Planning Resources 3.1) We just got engaged and have [X] months to go. What do I do now? There are many sources of information available in books, magazines, the Internet, and your friends and family, The alt.wedding home page (www.netins.net/showcase/wedding) and the soc.couples.wedding home page (http://www.wam.umd.edu/~sek/wedding.html) are good starting points along with the two Usenet newsgroups. Don’t overlook the local library for many of the books and articles that are recommended reading. 3.2) How do you plan a wedding and remain sane? Amy Breslin answers:’Basically, I’m trying to say that you are stressing out over a minor detail…in the grand scheme of things. You will enjoy the wedding and the whole planning process a LOT more (yes, it can be enjoyable) if you let go of the things like the bridesmaid’s shoes (insert problem here: napkin colors, whether or not the pew bows match the dresses, etc.), and try to focus on having these good friends spend TIME with you and helping you get ready for your wedding. I think it’s pretty safe to say that nobody but you will actually notice the fabric vs. leather shoe issue. Don’t let it stress you out.’ 3.3) Do I need a fancy wedding planner? They can be very helpful if you are not an organized person, but many people on the newsgroup have found that accordion file folders and a dedicated notebook work just as well. The important thing is to have some sort of system dedicated to your wedding planning so that you can keep all important paperwork and other resources in one place. 3.4) What are some recommended books for planning our wedding? The following is a list of planning books that couples on alt.wedding have found helpful: + ‘Bridal Bargains’ by Denise and Alan Fields. 800/888-0384 (US Only) + ‘How to Have a Big Wedding on a Small Budget’ by Diane Warner 800-289-0963 (US Only) + ‘How to Have the Wedding You Want (not the one Everybody Else Wants You toHave)’ by Danielle Claro ISBN: 042 5145 786 Published: 1995 + Interfaith marriages: ‘The New Jewish Wedding’ by Anita Diamanthas ISBN: 067 1495 275 Published: 1985 3.5) What software is available to help me with my wedding plans? A. There are a few programs out there. Some are ’shareware’ (i.e., use the product for a trial period, and if you like it, send in payment ). There are also a number of commercial wedding planner software packages. Other brides have modified existing commercial spreadsheet and/or database programs (MS Excel, etc.) for budgeting and guest list purposes. Or use your favorite word processor for those lists. It is also good to keep a list of all your vendors so that you can easily print this list and give it to member of your bridal party ‘just in case’ someone does not show up. 3.6) . Can I make invitations or the program on my computer? Yes. You can design your own program or bulletin for the ceremony as well as the invitations themselves. There are two options for printing your work. You can take a copy to a print shop and have them print out the work on formal stationary, or you may print the work out on your home printer. There are several mail-order paper companies which make paper suitable for wedding invitations and programs. Lists of these companies can be found on the alt.wedding home page. A few items to be aware when printing on home printers: + Doing your invitations on heavier card stock may reduce the life of the toner or other consumables in your printer. + A light card stock may not feed through your printer correctly. + InkJet printers do not always print out indelible ink on some types of printer paper. + Always – TEST with one or two samples before merging your entire invitation list! + Find envelopes that fit your design *before* settling on a non-standard size or design. 3.7) Can I print the addresses on the outer envelope with my computer? This is both a technical and an etiquette question. Answers to this query on the etiquette front range from ‘Do whatever you want’ to ‘It’s so incredibly tacky’. The general consensus of these discussions seems to be that printing *directly* on the outer envelope only is fine, personal handwriting is required on the inner envelope, and that preprinted labels (be they clear or colored) are usually frowned upon. That said there are also some technical considerations when printing on envelopes. Depending upon the envelope, you may not get as good a printing as you had hoped for. Some textured envelopes may present a problem for your printer. Some printers may seal the envelope as it passes through the printer. To get around this, try inserting a piece of wax paper between the flap and the rest of the envelope. Wax paper is often the same type of material that labels come on. experience, printing on envelopes is very tricky. We spent about an hour trying to get the heavy envelope just to go through the printer, let alone trying to get the text to line up correctly on our odd shaped envelope. We ended up hand writing them because it was just easier in the long run.’ early on that the envelopes are laser printable, if not, have an ink-jet printer available to you. During our printing trial run, the laser print smudged right off our very high quality, felt-finish, archival quality envelopes, even after letting them sit for a while. Also, because the paper was slightly textured, the laserprint was irregular. But–much to my surprise–the print looked beautiful, clear and solid, and set very well when printed on my mom’s ink jet printer (HP 660c). Feeding the envelopes through straight and having them go through one at a time was a big fat pain in the neck and took lots of patience, but we eventually finished all 120+ envelopes. We ended up wasting a lot of envelopes (one’s that fed through crookedly, etc.), so be sure to have a minimum of 10% more envelopes than you have invitations to send.’ a very special piece of correspondence. It is the only time in your life (hopefully) that you’ll send one to your family and friends. That’s the reason that it’s so important to take the time to hand-write them. It lets your family and guests know they are special–and that you’ve taken the time to make sure that they are.’ SECTION 4: TRADITIONS First some general comments on traditions. Just because something is ‘traditional’ (i.e., garter toss, money dance) does not that mean that you /must/ do it at your wedding. If the tradition means something to you, then by all means include it. But if you don’t include something, it’s very likely that no one will even notice (except your nosy aunt who notices everything!). 4.1) Whose name goes on the wedding invitations? The people who are paying? Is that the same as hosting a wedding? pays does not always equate to being the host. Traditionally, the mother of the bride is the hostess of the reception and the bride and groom are the guests of honor even though they may be paying for it. The functions of a host include greeting guests to the reception (which is why the receiving line was born), thanking everyone for coming, directing people to their seats, seeing that the guests are enjoying themselves, and wishing them goodbye when guests leave. The bride and groom are the guests of honor at the wedding reception and therefore they arrive a tiny bit later than everyone else to make the grand entrance as the featured guests of honor. That is why it is considered impolite to arrive late since a latecomer could potentially ’steal the thunder’ from an arriving guest of honor and it is disrespectful as well. Guests of Honor should always leave before other guests since well mannered guests know that it is rude and potentially disrespectful to leave a function before the guest of honor does. The guest of honor leaving is a signal to the other guests that it is OK to leave without offending anyone.’ 4.2 Where does Tradition X come from and/or what does it mean? + Jewish: Smashing of glass at the end of ceremony. * Even in the happiest of moments remember the fragility of   life. * Symbolic of the destruction of the Temple and the mourning   for Jerusalem.

  bridal pair of the frailty of life. Just as one blow can   shatter a glass, so the sanctity and harmony of the home can     be destroyed by a single act ofthoughtlessness or   infidelity. As easy as it is to break a glass, so petty   squabbles and arguments or quick temper may lead to the   breakup of a marriage. The breaking of the glass also   symbolizes irrevocability. Just as this is an irrevocable   Brill, Halpin & Genne. (1985) Write Your Own Wedding.   Piscataway, NJ: New Century Publishers, Inc. (p. 26)   believe that the breaking of the glass symbolizes the   breaking of the bride’s maidenhood, and her moving from   girlhood to womanhood, irrevocably.’ + Unity Candle: The joining of two lives and/or families to   become one. + Groom’s Cake:Single women guests would take it home, sleep   with it under their pillow and dream of their future   husband. + Something Old, New, Borrowed, Blue (Victorian) :   Something Old and Borrowed are usually items given to the   bride by a loved one.  Something New represents the   bride’s acceptance of new life — often represented by the   new gown. Something Blue can be traced to the rhyme,   ‘Those who dress in blue have

… read more »

Response:

thanks for posting this – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >The alt.wedding FAQ >Posting Frequency: Monthly >Last Modified: 1 April 1999 >Version 5.0 >Part 1 of 3 >Table of Contents: >SECTION  0: About the FAQ >0.1 What is a FAQ? >0.2 Where can I find the FAQ? >0.3 What is Netiquette? >0.4 Netiquette and Flaming >0.5 Copyright >0.6 Revision History >SECTION  1: About alt.wedding >1.1 What is alt.wedding? >1.2 What is the difference between alt.wedding >  and soc.couples.wedding? >1.3 Is advertising allowed on alt.wedding? >1.4 What is the meaning of this alt.wedding abbreviation? >1.5 Who are the posters? >1.6 What’s the deal with wedding etiquette? >SECTION  2: Engagements >2.1 Can a couple be engaged without an engagement ring? >2.2 Must an engagement ring be a diamond? >2.3 Can a man wear an engagement ring? >2.4 How much is my ring worth, and what does the >  appraisal value mean? >2.5 What about the two months salary guideline? >2.6 What are some of the potential problems with >  a long engagement (two or more years)? >2.7 What are some of the potential problems with >  a short engagement? >2.8 What kind of gift should I bring to an engagement party? >2.9 Is it proper to send out engagement announcements? >SECTION  3: Resources >3.1 We just got engaged and have [X] months to go. >  What do I do now? >3.2 How do you plan a wedding and remain sane? >3.3 Do I need a fancy wedding planner? >3.4 What are some recommended books for planning our >  wedding? >3.5 What software is available to help me with my plans? >3.6 Can I make invitations or the program on my computer? >3.7 Can I print the addresses on the outer envelope with >  my computer? >SECTION  4: Traditions >4.1 Whose name goes on the wedding invitations? >4.2 Where does Tradition X come from and/or what does it >  mean? >+ Smashing of glass at the end of Jewish ceremonies >+ Unity Candle >+ Groom’s Cake >+ Something Old, New, Borrowed, Blue >+ Silver Horseshoes >+ Jordan Almonds >+ Ivy >4.3 What are options to glass clinking to get the >  couple to kiss? >4.4 Why is it rude to specify ‘no gifts’? >4.5 What can I get the couple who has everything? >4.6 What should I do with the cards the >  department store gave me? >4.7 Do I have to buy someone something from their registry? >4.8 Can I use shower presents before the wedding? >4.9 Does my wedding need a theme? >4.10 What is a guest book besides a bunch of signatures? >4.11 What are the options for changing my name after >  marriage? >4.12 On what documents should I change my name? >4.13 What are favors? >4.14 What are some good favor ideas? >4.15 I am the Best Man in my friend’s wedding. >4.16 Why won’t our church let us throw rice or confetti? >4.17 Is it true that rice is bad for birds? >4.18 What can we use if not rice or confetti? >4.19 I’ve been thinking about a butterfly release. Is >  this a good idea? >4.20 What is the traditional gift given for ‘X’ anniversary? >  What is the modern gift for ‘X’ anniversary? >SECTION  5: Vendors >5.1 I need to choose a florist / photographer / >  caterer. Where do I start? >5.2 Must I have professional photography or video? >5.3 Do I need a contract if my service provider >  is a family friend? >5.4 Do I need to feed the vendors at the reception? >5.5 What questions should I ask a photographer? >5.6 How well do those disposable cameras work? >SECTION  6: Attire >6.1 I am a guest at a wedding and want to wear X. >6.2 What do the male attendants wear at time Y? >6.3 Wedding Dresses >6.4 Brides Who Wear Glasses >6.5 Dress Preservation >SECTION  7: Readings >SECTION  8: Attendants >8.1 Choosing Attendants >8.2 Non-traditional attendants >8.3 Typical Duties of the Best Man: >8.4 Typical Duties of Ushers/Groomsmen X: >8.5 Typical Duties of Maid/Matron of Honor: >8.6 Typical Duties of Bridesmaids: >SECTION  9: Important phone numbers and/or addresses >9.1 Address of The White House >9.2 Address of The Pope >SECTION  10: Detailed FAQ topics >10.1 Prenuptial Agreement FAQ >10.2 Other mini-FAQs >SECTION  0: ABOUT THE FAQ >0.1 What is an FAQ? >An FAQ is a Frequently Asked Question. This document tries to >answer many frequently asked questions that often come up in >discussions on alt.wedding. >0.2 Where can I find the FAQ? >The FAQ is posted monthly on alt.wedding. Additionally, it can >be obtained via e-mail from Ann Alias >http://www.netins.net/showcase/wedding/. The AW home page >should be considered a companion site to the soc.couples.wedding home >page, >http://www.wam.umd.edu/~sek/wedding.html. Both the >alt.wedding and soc.couples.wedding have a number of ‘mini-FAQs’ that >provide detailed >information which supplement the aw/scw >FAQs. >0.3 What is Netiquette? >A set of generally accepted rules for posting (netiquette) can >be found in the FAQs in NEWS.NEWUSERS.QUESTIONS and >NEWS.ANSWERS. It is recommended that you read these before >beginning to post to the group. Also, there is a section on the >alt.wedding home page that addresses UseNet and new users. We >strongly encourage you to read the following at least once:: >+ Answers to Frequently Asked Questions About UseNet >+ Rules for Posting to UseNet >+ Hints on Writing Style for UseNet >+ Emily Postnews Answers Your Questions on Netiquette >+ A Primer on How to Work With the UseNet Community >+ What is UseNet? >If you have further questions about reading and posting to this >or any other group, subscribe to news.newusers.questions. >Whether yours is a technical question or a netiquette question, >the people there are the ones who can best help you out. You >can also check the FAQs in news.software.readers or ask your >local system administrator for help with your news reader (trn, >TIN, nn, etc.). This is also a good place to find help with >technical questions or netiquette guidelines. >0.4 Netiquette and Flaming >Flaming is discouraged on a.w. Arguments over ‘He said/She said’ are not >welcome here. >The same holds true for those users who >instigate or perpetuate flamewars. Chronic offenders of this >policy are referred to alt.flame first, then >news.admin.net-abuse.*. Flaming occurs when two people have >differing opinions and views and one or both parties resort to >insulting, name calling, and ad hominem attacks. These >diatribes generally gather steam until it becomes a ‘flamewar.’ >While other users may end up taking sides in this sort of >conflict, most users really don’t care about the brouhaha and >would prefer it stop. >People have *very* strong opinions about some wedding issues. >If you want to discuss some of these ’sensitive topics,’ do so >calmly and politely. Don’t try to change someone else’s >beliefs, or attack them personally. After all, what may be >viewed as tacky in your eyes may be viewed as a long-standing >tradition in another person’s family. >It should be noted that disagreeing with someone’s ideas or >plans does not constitute a flame. There have been many intense >discussions on alt.wedding on such topics as money dances, cash >bars, and same-sex marriages. While disagreement may be intense >in these discussions, the statements are not necessarily >flames, and should not be taken as such. Just because someone >disagrees with your opinion does not mean they are flaming you. >0.5 Copyright >This FAQ is maintained by Ann. Please distribute freely without >modifications, with this statement intact. If you would like to >see changes, corrections or additions, please e-mail Ann at >0.6 Revision History >+ Version 1.0 >[12 Oct 1993]. The original FAQ was last modified by Stuart >+ Version 2.0 >[Date???] As the original FAQ had fallen into serious >disrepair and was not being posted on a regular basis, >+ Version 3.0 >[3 Jan 1997] Along with the departure of Jay Dyson as >maintainer of the alt.wedding home page, the FAQ was not >being posted and/or revised on a timely bases. The >kestrel.umd.edu). >+ Version 3.1 >[20 Jan 1997] Added wedding pranks section, Revised >discussion of flaming >[28 Jan 1997] Revised some vendor discussion >[16 Feb 1997] Added tag-ripping information, Modified gift >guidelines >+ Version 3.2 >[18 Apr 1997] Added Readings, Updated advertising guidelines >30 Apr 1997 Revised Advertising Guideline >+ Version 4.0 >[12 August 1997] With Carrie Leonard’s resignation as FAQ >Maintainer, the job was handed over to Noe >+ Version 4.1 >[27 December 1997] Revised advertising section. Added >question about glasses in attire section. Added anniversary >gifts. Added Pope’s address. >+ Version 4.2 >[30 January 1998] Revised sig-file portion of advertising >section >+ Version 4.3 >[02 October 1998] Updated web address. Revised some vendor >discussion. Added to Jewish traditions and gifts sections. >+ Version 4.4 >[28 February 1999] Added section about dress preservation. >Added butterfly releases and an URL to a bubble FAQ to >Section 4.1. Added to disposable cameras, gift registry, >engagements. >+ Version 5.0 >[01 April 1999] Maintenance passes to Ann. >SECTION  1: ABOUT ALT.WEDDING >1.1) What is alt.wedding? >alt.wedding is a UseNet newsgroup that holds a free form >discussion of items, issues and matters relating to weddings. >a.w is read by brides, grooms, attendants, relatives, those >already married and those people who will someday get married. >a.w is a place to read information about weddings, to give and >receive advice, and to sound out creative solutions to >problems. Also, often discussions of relationships between >family

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The alt.wedding FAQ Posting Frequency: Monthly Last Modified: 1 April 1999 Version 5.0 Part 3 of 3 4.19) I’ve been thinking about a butterfly release. Is this a good idea? answer: ‘Reasons why butterfly releases are not a great idea: 1. The type of butterfly released is not necessarily native to the area. If you introduce a non-native insect (or plant, or animal) and it thrives, it upsets the local ecosystem, usually reducing the numbers of some native species. If it doesn’t thrive, well, you *have* sacrificed a living being in   honor of your wedding day. Wedding symbolism: Having things our way is so important that we don’t care diddly about the big picture. 2. Without luck and climate control, many of the butterflies in the boxes will be dead and capable of benefiting the ecosystem only as compost. Think of how a guest feels, waving   a dead butterfly! Wedding symbolism: Many of our romantic hopes are doomed from the outset. 3. Without additional luck, flocks of butterflies are likely to be snapped up by passing birds. This MIGHT be an urban legend   (it’s just tooooo poetically neat), but do you want to risk having 200 guests watch in horror as the butterflies become lunch for birds? Wedding symbolism: Unexpected outside factors will swoop down and damage our marriage commitment.’ 4. The butterflies often aren’t all that enthusiastic about flying off in a photogenic cloud. They want to sit there, look around, and ponder this whole exciting new concept of having wings. Wedding symbolism: We believe we should be the center of great drama, but actually we’re pretty ordinary, even disappointing. Although not everyone who falls for the butterfly release hype is Bridezilla, it *is* almost the perfect Bridezilla send-off.’ (end quote by Wende Feller). 4.20) I What is the traditional gift given for ‘X’ anniversary? What is the modern gift for ‘X’ anniversary? The most common and wide published listings of anniversary gifts is as follows:             Traditional    Modern First        Paper          Clocks Second        Cotton        China Third        Leather        Crystal/Glass Fourth        Fruit/Flowers  Appliances Fifth        Wood          Silverware Sixth        Candy/Iron    Wood Seventh      Wool/Cooper    Desk Sets Eighth        Bronze/Pottery Linens/Lace Ninth        Pottery/Willow Leather Tenth        Tin/Aluminum  Diamond Jewelry Eleventh      Steel          Fashion Jewelry Twelfth      Silk/Linen    Pearls Thirteenth    Lace          Textiles/Furs Fourteenth    Ivory          Gold Jewelry Fifteenth    Crystal        Watches Twentieth    China          Platinum Twenty-Fifth  Silver        Silver Thirtieth    Pearl          Diamond Thirty-Fifth  Coral          Jade Fortieth      Sapphire      Sapphire Fiftieth      Gold          Gold Fifty-Fifth  Emerald        Emerald Sixtieth      Diamond        Diamond SECTION 5: VENDORS 5.1) I need to choose a florist/photographer/caterer. Where do I start? Ask friends, relatives, other brides for recommendations. Ask the photographer to recommend a florist, etc. Interview all prospective vendors and interview more than one vendor in each field so you have a basis for comparison. 5.2) Must I have professional photography or video? You never MUST use a professional. If you don’t want something, you don’t need to have it. But if you want high quality pictures or video you generally must pay for it. Many couples are satisfied with good pictures or video taken by friends, and that is not discouraged. But many couples have also been disappointed by work done by friends. Again, your mileage may vary, but the decision is very much up to you. It is always wise to outline in writing what is expected of each party (see below). It is also a good idea that IF you want a friend to bake your cake, that he/she have some experience baking cakes. 5.3) Do I need a contract if my service provider is a family friend? Yes. Often a simple contract is all that is needed, but it should include the wedding date, the items to be provided, any special services (delivery, etc.), and a price agreed upon. It should also have name, phone number, and address of both parties involved. 5.4) Do I need to feed the vendors, such as the photographer and DJ, at the reception? The answer varies from ‘Yes’ to ‘No’ with not much room in between. plumber. I don’t feed my electrician. They are contractors who come to me to perform a job. I feel the same way about photographers, musicians, videographers, etc.’ know their jobs, let them eat when they want to, as long as nothing is compromised in the process. And if they do decide to eat at the wrong time, they will most likely not be offended if they are asked to do something, eg. take a photo or whatever. If they are, you probably shouldhave hired someone more personable.’ to me to provide a meal, then I shouldn’t have to. My photographer did not say anything to me, and it was NOT in the contract. The DJ did not say anything to me either, although I did ask, because someone else is paying for the DJ. His response was: that would be nice. Still doesn’t say much to me. I go to work everyday, and I either bring my lunch or buy lunch. My work doesn’t provide lunch.’ paricularly the larger hotels, (or at least in this area) caterers and hotel management have an ‘employee meal’ that they also provide for vendors. Indeed, if the meal is a buffet style the vendors are usually allowed to partake once everyone else has gone through. ‘However, if the meal is a sit down, sandwiches are often provided as caterers usually want to charge full price for additional dinners… to me that’s not right. I don’t have a problem with bringing my own meal as long as I know in advance so I don’t have to LEAVE to get something to eat. ‘[This] is an area that many couples planning their wedding might not think about, but should certainly be aware of before interviewing prospective candidates. Obviously there are a number of differing opinions, but the important point to make clear is that you should ASK YOUR VENDOR (DJ, Band, Weding Coordinator, Vidoegrapher, or Photographer) whether a meal is expected and what alternatives there may be. I would definitely stress the importance of keeping your vendors on-site as opposed to having them go out to get something… you don’t have to worry if they’ll make it back.’ 5.5) What questions should I ask a photographer? There are several FAQs that have been written on the subject. Please see: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~sek/wedding/photofaq.html, http://www.wam.umd.edu/~sek/wedding/videofaq.txt, and http://super.zippo.com/~altwed/photo1.htm as starting points. The most important thing is to decide what kind of photography you want, what kind of budget you have, and the quality of photography you want. 5.6) How well do those disposable cameras work? Many alt.wedding participants have had great success with the disposables. The quality is not close to professional work, but you will get some good candids. It is recommended that you do not substitute the disposables for a pro if you want good portraiture. Another option is to supply 35mm film to guests with their own cameras and pay for the developing. Conversely, some alt.wedding participants have had less than good results. Some guests have assumed the cameras were ‘favors’ and simply took them home. Some have had relatives who intended to get the film developed but didn’t. And some people have counted on their guests to snap good candids at the reception thereby eliminating the expense of a professional photographer only to be greatly disappointed. And a recent twist to the disposable camera discussion includes the question: ‘Is is proper to ask the guests to take your reception photos?’ MissManners, an American etiquette expert, thinks this practice is ‘appalling’ and is akin to leaving eggs and butter on the tables and expecting guests to bake their own cake. She says that guests are not there to provide a service but to enjoy the festivities without such an obligation. SECTION 6: Attire 6.1 I am a guest at a wedding and want to wear X. What should I wear? You should be able to wear any color you want to a wedding. However, observe local customs and habits when making choices. If in doubt, you could always ask the bride and groom. The invitation to the wedding should give some hint of the formality of the event. It may be considered a breach of etiquette to wear red to a wedding, or dress so that you at more of a vision than the bride. It may also be considered unlucky to wear black or green, and it may be considered too bridal-looking (again you may be upstaging the bride) to wear white. 6.2 What do the male attendants wear at time Y? These days, there are no fast and hard rules for men’s formal wear. As long as it fits in with the look of the wedding, they can wear a tux or a suit or whatever. You can differentiate the groom by dressing him slightly differently: a different boutonniere, or looking for the widest grin. For example, you may wear black tuxedos at any time of the day or night if you wish. There are set etiquette guidelines which suggest what one should and should not wear at certain times of the day. 6.3 How can I comparison shop for my dress if the salon cuts out the tags or encodes the style number? Is this legal? yanking tags is illegal in the U.S.A.. If you want to do something about it, write the Federal Trade Commission at Correspondence Branch, FTC. … read more »

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The alt.wedding FAQ Posting Frequency: Monthly Last Modified: 1 April 1999 Version 5.0 Part 1 of 3 Table of Contents: SECTION  0: About the FAQ 0.1 What is a FAQ? 0.2 Where can I find the FAQ? 0.3 What is Netiquette? 0.4 Netiquette and Flaming 0.5 Copyright 0.6 Revision History SECTION  1: About alt.wedding 1.1 What is alt.wedding? 1.2 What is the difference between alt.wedding   and soc.couples.wedding? 1.3 Is advertising allowed on alt.wedding? 1.4 What is the meaning of this alt.wedding abbreviation? 1.5 Who are the posters? 1.6 What’s the deal with wedding etiquette? SECTION  2: Engagements 2.1 Can a couple be engaged without an engagement ring? 2.2 Must an engagement ring be a diamond? 2.3 Can a man wear an engagement ring? 2.4 How much is my ring worth, and what does the   appraisal value mean? 2.5 What about the two months salary guideline? 2.6 What are some of the potential problems with   a long engagement (two or more years)? 2.7 What are some of the potential problems with   a short engagement? 2.8 What kind of gift should I bring to an engagement party? 2.9 Is it proper to send out engagement announcements? SECTION  3: Resources 3.1 We just got engaged and have [X] months to go.   What do I do now? 3.2 How do you plan a wedding and remain sane? 3.3 Do I need a fancy wedding planner? 3.4 What are some recommended books for planning our   wedding? 3.5 What software is available to help me with my plans? 3.6 Can I make invitations or the program on my computer? 3.7 Can I print the addresses on the outer envelope with   my computer? SECTION  4: Traditions 4.1 Whose name goes on the wedding invitations? 4.2 Where does Tradition X come from and/or what does it   mean? + Smashing of glass at the end of Jewish ceremonies + Unity Candle + Groom’s Cake + Something Old, New, Borrowed, Blue + Silver Horseshoes + Jordan Almonds + Ivy 4.3 What are options to glass clinking to get the   couple to kiss? 4.4 Why is it rude to specify ‘no gifts’? 4.5 What can I get the couple who has everything? 4.6 What should I do with the cards the   department store gave me? 4.7 Do I have to buy someone something from their registry? 4.8 Can I use shower presents before the wedding? 4.9 Does my wedding need a theme? 4.10 What is a guest book besides a bunch of signatures? 4.11 What are the options for changing my name after   marriage? 4.12 On what documents should I change my name? 4.13 What are favors? 4.14 What are some good favor ideas? 4.15 I am the Best Man in my friend’s wedding. 4.16 Why won’t our church let us throw rice or confetti? 4.17 Is it true that rice is bad for birds? 4.18 What can we use if not rice or confetti? 4.19 I’ve been thinking about a butterfly release. Is   this a good idea? 4.20 What is the traditional gift given for ‘X’ anniversary?   What is the modern gift for ‘X’ anniversary? SECTION  5: Vendors 5.1 I need to choose a florist / photographer /   caterer. Where do I start? 5.2 Must I have professional photography or video? 5.3 Do I need a contract if my service provider   is a family friend? 5.4 Do I need to feed the vendors at the reception? 5.5 What questions should I ask a photographer? 5.6 How well do those disposable cameras work? SECTION  6: Attire 6.1 I am a guest at a wedding and want to wear X. 6.2 What do the male attendants wear at time Y? 6.3 Wedding Dresses 6.4 Brides Who Wear Glasses 6.5 Dress Preservation SECTION  7: Readings SECTION  8: Attendants 8.1 Choosing Attendants 8.2 Non-traditional attendants 8.3 Typical Duties of the Best Man: 8.4 Typical Duties of Ushers/Groomsmen X: 8.5 Typical Duties of Maid/Matron of Honor: 8.6 Typical Duties of Bridesmaids: SECTION  9: Important phone numbers and/or addresses 9.1 Address of The White House 9.2 Address of The Pope SECTION  10: Detailed FAQ topics 10.1 Prenuptial Agreement FAQ 10.2 Other mini-FAQs SECTION  0: ABOUT THE FAQ 0.1 What is an FAQ? An FAQ is a Frequently Asked Question. This document tries to answer many frequently asked questions that often come up in discussions on alt.wedding. 0.2 Where can I find the FAQ? The FAQ is posted monthly on alt.wedding. Additionally, it can be obtained via e-mail from Ann Alias http://www.netins.net/showcase/wedding/. The AW home page should be considered a companion site to the soc.couples.wedding home page, http://www.wam.umd.edu/~sek/wedding.html. Both the alt.wedding and soc.couples.wedding have a number of ‘mini-FAQs’ that provide detailed information which supplement the aw/scw FAQs. 0.3 What is Netiquette? A set of generally accepted rules for posting (netiquette) can be found in the FAQs in NEWS.NEWUSERS.QUESTIONS and NEWS.ANSWERS. It is recommended that you read these before beginning to post to the group. Also, there is a section on the alt.wedding home page that addresses UseNet and new users. We strongly encourage you to read the following at least once:: + Answers to Frequently Asked Questions About UseNet + Rules for Posting to UseNet + Hints on Writing Style for UseNet + Emily Postnews Answers Your Questions on Netiquette + A Primer on How to Work With the UseNet Community + What is UseNet? If you have further questions about reading and posting to this or any other group, subscribe to news.newusers.questions. Whether yours is a technical question or a netiquette question, the people there are the ones who can best help you out. You can also check the FAQs in news.software.readers or ask your local system administrator for help with your news reader (trn, TIN, nn, etc.). This is also a good place to find help with technical questions or netiquette guidelines. 0.4 Netiquette and Flaming Flaming is discouraged on a.w. Arguments over ‘He said/She said’ are not welcome here. The same holds true for those users who instigate or perpetuate flamewars. Chronic offenders of this policy are referred to alt.flame first, then news.admin.net-abuse.*. Flaming occurs when two people have differing opinions and views and one or both parties resort to insulting, name calling, and ad hominem attacks. These diatribes generally gather steam until it becomes a ‘flamewar.’ While other users may end up taking sides in this sort of conflict, most users really don’t care about the brouhaha and would prefer it stop. People have *very* strong opinions about some wedding issues. If you want to discuss some of these ’sensitive topics,’ do so calmly and politely. Don’t try to change someone else’s beliefs, or attack them personally. After all, what may be viewed as tacky in your eyes may be viewed as a long-standing tradition in another person’s family. It should be noted that disagreeing with someone’s ideas or plans does not constitute a flame. There have been many intense discussions on alt.wedding on such topics as money dances, cash bars, and same-sex marriages. While disagreement may be intense in these discussions, the statements are not necessarily flames, and should not be taken as such. Just because someone disagrees with your opinion does not mean they are flaming you. 0.5 Copyright This FAQ is maintained by Ann. Please distribute freely without modifications, with this statement intact. If you would like to see changes, corrections or additions, please e-mail Ann at 0.6 Revision History + Version 1.0 [12 Oct 1993]. The original FAQ was last modified by Stuart + Version 2.0 [Date???] As the original FAQ had fallen into serious disrepair and was not being posted on a regular basis, + Version 3.0 [3 Jan 1997] Along with the departure of Jay Dyson as maintainer of the alt.wedding home page, the FAQ was not being posted and/or revised on a timely bases. The kestrel.umd.edu). + Version 3.1 [20 Jan 1997] Added wedding pranks section, Revised discussion of flaming [28 Jan 1997] Revised some vendor discussion [16 Feb 1997] Added tag-ripping information, Modified gift guidelines + Version 3.2 [18 Apr 1997] Added Readings, Updated advertising guidelines 30 Apr 1997 Revised Advertising Guideline + Version 4.0 [12 August 1997] With Carrie Leonard’s resignation as FAQ Maintainer, the job was handed over to Noe + Version 4.1 [27 December 1997] Revised advertising section. Added question about glasses in attire section. Added anniversary gifts. Added Pope’s address. + Version 4.2 [30 January 1998] Revised sig-file portion of advertising section + Version 4.3 [02 October 1998] Updated web address. Revised some vendor discussion. Added to Jewish traditions and gifts sections. + Version 4.4 [28 February 1999] Added section about dress preservation. Added butterfly releases and an URL to a bubble FAQ to Section 4.1. Added to disposable cameras, gift registry, engagements. + Version 5.0 [01 April 1999] Maintenance passes to Ann. SECTION  1: ABOUT ALT.WEDDING 1.1) What is alt.wedding? alt.wedding is a UseNet newsgroup that holds a free form discussion of items, issues and matters relating to weddings. a.w is read by brides, grooms, attendants, relatives, those already married and those people who will someday get married. a.w is a place to read information about weddings, to give and receive advice, and to sound out creative solutions to problems. Also, often discussions of relationships between family members and friends are found here. Topics about marriage in general, and not necessarily weddings, such as living together, finances, etc. are not off-topic for this group. A newlywed newsgroup (alt.newlywed) does exist, but many locations do not carry this newsgroup, so newlywed topics are not frowned upon by the alt.wedding participants. 1.2) What is the … read more »

Response:

Filed under: Diamond Wedding Ring